Apogee & Outboard Gear Query :)

[Lipskimusic]

Dear All,

I would like to expand my Apogee Element using a Ferrofish Converter (via ADAT) to integrate my outboard gear. Has anyone got experience working with both products?

The Element has only got a few analogue outputs (+ all analogue inputs are at the front of the unit). Therefore, IMO the only way using outboard gear in that context (i.e. rack-mounted) is an additional, external AD converter connected via ADAT.

Whilst I really like Apogee for allowing the user to bypass the preamps when using line-in gear I hope that there is no additional gain-stage involved when adding the Ferrofish... I read something in their manual saying that the Ferrofish control software 'allows for adjusting the gain'. I obviously do no want that...

I am not married to the Ferrofish option and open to your suggestions. I am just looking for a straightforward solution to integrate outboard gear with the least amount of hassle In an ideal world both converters (Apogee + Ferrofish) would do nothing but their job, there would be fixed gain levels across the chain and levels will only be controlled within the relevant outboard analogue gear unit + the DAW.

I hope that makes sense. Please let me know your thoughts.

Cheers,
Matt

[Len911]

Matt, I'm assuming you are talking Apogee Element 24 thunderbolt interface and Ferrofish A16 Adat edition?

To answer your question, the Ferrofish doesn't have any preamps. The level, eg. -4dbv, -10dbv, like the old consumer level and pro level, I would say most a/d converters will have level settings. The examples are the settings of my rme a/d converter.
http://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/fer ... ultra-mkii
This is a review of the A16 with madi and adat, same principle.

[quoteThe Levels menu displays a set of output faders which can be adjusted in 0.5dB increments, individually, in pairs, in eights, or all 16 at once, between +4 and -10dBu. The Gain menu works in a similar way for the input levels, scaled from -4 to +10dBu. In practice, a 0dBu analogue input provides -20dBFS at any of the digital outputs when the input gain is set to the default -4dB reference setting. With the maximum +10dB input gain, an analogue input of 0dBu provides a digital output of -7dBFS. To put it another way, the minimum input for 0dBFS is +7dBu (+4.8dBV), and the maximum is +20dBu, depending on the input-gain setting.][/quote]

[Len911]

https://global.focusrite.com/adat-interfaces

Cheaper solutions. Yes there are 8 preamps, but yes also there are 8 line inputs.

[mojobone]

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ASP800 Or if you need channel inserts on all the preamps: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ASP880

[Lipskimusic]

@Len911: I had the Focusrite and sold it. You cannot bypass the preamps when you go line-in (at least not on the Scarlett) and you end up fiddling with the gain at both ends (interface & outboard unit). It did not work for me.

@Mojobone: Interesting! I had looked into the Audient line of products and they look really promising. Thanks!

[Len911]

@Len911: I had the Focusrite and sold it. You cannot bypass the preamps when you go line-in (at least not on the Scarlett) and you end up fiddling with the gain at both ends (interface & outboard unit). It did not work for me.

@Mojobone: Interesting! I had looked into the Audient line of products and they look really promising. Thanks!

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-gb/ ... c-Preamps-

Some of our interfaces also include 1/4 inch jack (TRS) line inputs that do not pass through a variable gain circuit. These inputs instead pass through a fixed-gain line amplifier circuit.

So whether you have a fiddling (variable gain) or a fixed gain (line input), or a ferrofish with no preamps, but a level adjustment, the fact is you are going through an amplifier (gain or attenuation circuit), and a preamp is, well, an amplifier. Then the question is probably more or less about the quality of amp you wish or wish not to pass through.

[lesmac]

This might be a bit left of field but....

Have you considered just getting another interface that has all the connectivity you need and maybe sell the Apogee or keep it to use in portable situations.

I use an RME UFX and am really happy with it's stability and sound. The Total Mix software that comes with it is very flexible and configurable.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FirefaceUFX

Just something else to make you scratch your head. These studio upgrades can really do your head in. All the best with it.

EDIT; That UFX doesn't have thunderbolt connectivity though.

Just thought I'd throw in a whole new interface as an option as it may be a more elegant solution even though you'd have buyers remorse for the Apogee.

[Lipskimusic]

@lesmac: Thanks for your note. Great minds think alike I did a lot of research over the last couple of days and I agree RME seems to be the only interface I came across, that offers what I am looking for ...line inputs are just line inputs and do not hit the preamp (great!) + there are a lot of them, even in their entry level model + a lot of outputs. I think now I know what to buy (and what to sell)

[Len911]

[quote...line inputs are just line inputs and do not hit the preamp (great!)][/quote]

RME Adi-2 is what I use, fwiw. It's still available after all these years, and still as expensive,lol!

Matt, I'm not sure what you mean by line inputs are just line inputs and don't hit the preamp, maybe you disagree with me that preamps are an amp or gain stage, or that there is a difference between a preamp and a level matching circuit, or that there is no gain circuit in the rme? If it's the last, that rme has no amp circuit connected to the line inputs before the a/d converters, this is from rme:

[quoteAny A/D converter is only as good as the gain compensation at the input. The ADI-8 has 3 gain levels, making it compatible with a wide range of studio equipment - loss is avoided before the signal gets to the A/D converter. Input gain is switchable between Lo Gain, +4 dBu and -10 dBV, and employs a special damping technique: using latest hi-grade electronic switches (ADG 451), the gain switch could be placed in the best possible position within the signal path. This approach makes additional amplifier circuitry or long cables to mechanical components unnecessary (and obsolete.) The D/A converters get the best quality signal possible, so they can reach maximum SNR (signal-to-noise ratio) with minimum distortion.][/quote]

Low noise JRC4580 op-amps are used throughout. This type can be found in countless appliances - it is an unbeatable combination of low noise, low output impedance and low price. However, simply sticking 4580s into your devices will not guarantee you the best possible technical spec - the surrounding circuitry has to be up to scratch as well.

https://www.rme-audio.de/en/support/tec ... inside.php

[lesmac]

Post by Lipskimusic » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:36 am
@lesmac: Thanks for your note. Great minds think alike I did a lot of research over the last couple of days and I agree RME seems to be the only interface I came across, that offers what I am looking for ...line inputs are just line inputs and do not hit the preamp (great!) + there are a lot of them, even in their entry level model + a lot of outputs. I think now I know what to buy (and what to sell)

Cool If you go that way and strike any issues pm me and I'll help if I can. The only prob I had was a newbie one where I couldn't find the gain pots in the software.

I know another owner of the ufx and his experience is the same as mine. The general consensus I pick up is that RME's drivers are rock solid, the converters are quality and so is the clock.

I suspected problems [crackling] with it once but it turned out to be that my computer tweaks for my DAW [Pro tools] weren't up to date.