Are sync fees realistic?

[WeWillWriteUaSong]

Hello all! I wanted to ask a question to the more experienced TAXI riders. I see listings from time to time with very high sync fees (1k-150k and non-exclusive!). I have gotten several of my songs forwarded for listings like this. Has anyone currently on the forums ever actually banked any sync fees like this? I am wondering (with full respect of course) if they are really attainable or if they are just motivation to get us write at that "next level". I also know they usually say the words "up to"....which could essentially mean anything.

I know most forwards to libraries and pubs are paying back end. I have a handful of songs and tracks around getting back end royalties from my PRO (not thru TAXI fwds). I also licensed a few instrus years back for $150/per. But since joining TAXI with much success, and forwards with such high sync fees - I am wondering how excited i should be about those. Are some of you with libraries or have contacts with supes who payout at rates like these?

I know there was a deep forum discussion (and followup TAXI TV) about the olympics edm forwards (i didnt post for that). I know they played the songs that got forwarded, but since those people do not frequent the forums - will we ever know if one of them banked the (up to) 150k? When I joined TAXI in January there was another discussion about the outdoor scene track for 125k. Have any of you guys or gals banked anything over 1k from a direct TAXI forward?

It would really be cool if these numbers are possible...and makes the wait very worth it. I've heard of people at the rally signing their whole catalogs.. would this mean signing a ton of songs with no upfront fees? I really am just curious, and not being impatient or rude. I am a full time producer/engineer and am accustomed to selling and licensing tracks for low/low-mid level money. (I think the most i got paid by a label for a musical track was $1500) so I was sort of hoping that TAXI may be able to crack down a door or two to help me get a few more bucks for a tune.

Hoping one of you wonderful and helpful TAXI riders could shed some light to a relative noob in these waters.

Thanks!
Marcus

[DesireInspires]

Sync fees are definitely realistic. Keep pitching.

[WeWillWriteUaSong]

Sync fees are definitely realistic. Keep pitching.

Awesome thanks! Short and sweet!
I'll probably never stop pitching anyway...I get the TAXI itch far too much and music pretty much consumes my every thought haha. Good to know the big numbers are reachable thru a forward.

Btw I love your handle! DesireInspires... my brother's band has a song called Desire to Inspire that I perform a lot and love.

[VanderBoegh]

Hey Marcus, I don't think these things are just motivational fodder for members. Taxi is too legit to offer false promises, and the more you get to know the company and the man behind the company (Michael Laskow), they more you realize that they keep it real. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Will SOMEONE land that $150,000 EDM placement for the commercial that will run during the Olympics? Absolutely. But will that person be a Taxi member? Who knows.... The things you have to keep in mind with those massive sync listings are that:

1) Taxi members are going to come out of the woodwork for those opps. And why wouldn't they? For a shot at that kind of money, you might as well try. So, the competition from within Taxi will be ginormous.

2) The best composers that Taxi has to offer will also be competing for this listing, so if you're new to the whole biz then your shot will be slim, as you're in competition with some top-notch people. And you'd be surprised at how many uber-successful hit songwriters are Taxi members just like us (Jason Blume springs to mind off the top of my head).

3) For opportunities like this one, the listing party will be looking at other places than just Taxi. So, we're not just in competition with our fellow members, but with people who are top-flight producers who don't even know what Taxi is. Which means, even if you got forwarded through Taxi, you're still up against some stiff competition from other places.

4) With a budget of $150,000, the listing party could just as easily get a custom composition from EDM powerhouses like Avicii or Calvin Harris if they don't find something they like after an exhaustive search. In fact, there's a chance that Avicii or Calvin Harris also submitted for this opportunity if they heard about this type of payday.

So, long story short... SOMEONE will collect that money. But only ONE person is walking away with it. The other thousands of people who tried for it will go home empty handed.

Personally, I take stabs at those listings occasionally, but over the past few years I've largely just gone after library / catalog listings, where sync fees are rare (or very minimal if you can get one), but backend royalties are ALWAYS poppin'. In those types of opportunities, there no Highlander motto "There can be only one!", they'll just take the tracks that work, and if you're good with people skills and selling yourself and your music, you can parlay a one-track offer from a library into an ongoing direct submission pipeline and ultimately get hundreds of pieces of music into the catalog. And over the course of time, that might eclipse the gigantic payday for commercial listings that only the best of the best will nab.

Last thought: if you're actually getting forwarded for these listings, then you're doing amazing things with songwriting, production, and targeting. Don't hold your breath that you'll be the final choice, but consider it a HUGE compliment that you made the cut and landed on the desk of the decision-maker, and for an hour or so, your music was probably listened to in close proximity to an Avicii track for the same opportunity.

~~Matt

[WeWillWriteUaSong]

Hey Marcus, I don't think these things are just motivational fodder for members. Taxi is too legit to offer false promises, and the more you get to know the company and the man behind the company (Michael Laskow), they more you realize that they keep it real. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Will SOMEONE land that $150,000 EDM placement for the commercial that will run during the Olympics? Absolutely. But will that person be a Taxi member? Who knows.... The things you have to keep in mind with those massive sync listings are that:

1) Taxi members are going to come out of the woodwork for those opps. And why wouldn't they? For a shot at that kind of money, you might as well try. So, the competition from within Taxi will be ginormous.

2) The best composers that Taxi has to offer will also be competing for this listing, so if you're new to the whole biz then your shot will be slim, as you're in competition with some top-notch people. And you'd be surprised at how many uber-successful hit songwriters are Taxi members just like us (Jason Blume springs to mind off the top of my head).

3) For opportunities like this one, the listing party will be looking at other places than just Taxi. So, we're not just in competition with our fellow members, but with people who are top-flight producers who don't even know what Taxi is. Which means, even if you got forwarded through Taxi, you're still up against some stiff competition from other places.

4) With a budget of $150,000, the listing party could just as easily get a custom composition from EDM powerhouses like Avicii or Calvin Harris if they don't find something they like after an exhaustive search. In fact, there's a chance that Avicii or Calvin Harris also submitted for this opportunity if they heard about this type of payday.

So, long story short... SOMEONE will collect that money. But only ONE person is walking away with it. The other thousands of people who tried for it will go home empty handed.

Personally, I take stabs at those listings occasionally, but over the past few years I've largely just gone after library / catalog listings, where sync fees are rare (or very minimal if you can get one), but backend royalties are ALWAYS poppin'. In those types of opportunities, there no Highlander motto "There can be only one!", they'll just take the tracks that work, and if you're good with people skills and selling yourself and your music, you can parlay a one-track offer from a library into an ongoing direct submission pipeline and ultimately get hundreds of pieces of music into the catalog. And over the course of time, that might eclipse the gigantic payday for commercial listings that only the best of the best will nab.

Last thought: if you're actually getting forwarded for these listings, then you're doing amazing things with songwriting, production, and targeting. Don't hold your breath that you'll be the final choice, but consider it a HUGE compliment that you made the cut and landed on the desk of the decision-maker, and for an hour or so, your music was probably listened to in close proximity to an Avicii track for the same opportunity.

~~Matt

Matt, thank you so much for this response. Really appreciate it! I DEFINITELY didn't mean to imply that Michael or TAXI make up the numbers or offer false promises.. Even after only 6 months I have enough respect for what goes on here. I more was asking if it was bait-like from the listing agents to get the best of the best to post. Not lies...just better bait.. I had a collaborator once get an offer for a song for $250 when the pub listing orginally said up to $8500 (not TAXI - i believe it was a direct submission)..but thank you for clarifying. I wasnt or wouldnt ever question taxi's integrity. I just didnt know if any current forumeers have ever banked any cool sync fees from forwards. And obviously no one is obligated to share anything like finances with someone they dont know. Was mainly curious. I can tell that the supes would be able to pull from more than TAXI fwds with such a huge budget. Probably a better chance at the 1k-2k ones.

Thank you so much for your response and kind words. I hope to meet you at the rally this year!

Marcus

[VanderBoegh]

I DEFINITELY didn't mean to imply that Michael or TAXI make up the numbers or offer false promises.. Even after only 6 months I have enough respect for what goes on here. I more was asking if it was bait-like from the listing agents to get the best of the best to post. Not lies...just better bait.. I had a collaborator once get an offer for a song for $250 when the pub listing orginally said up to $8500 (not TAXI - i believe it was a direct submission)..but thank you for clarifying. I wasnt or wouldnt ever question taxi's integrity.

No worries, my man! I didn't mean to imply that I'd thought you were questioning the legitimacy of the company. I think yours was a valid question, and one that comes up fairly regularly. I didn't read any discontent or suspicion to your original post. Sorry if my response might have given that impression.

For what it's worth, you've got great skills at this stuff. Been listening to your tracks since you starting becoming a regular presence here, and have been very impressed. The nice $1-$2K syncs will definitely be within your grasp as far as production and songwriting goes... just a matter of having the right thing at the right time now.

DEFINITELY see you at the Rally! I'll be the guy stumbling around, slurring his words at night, goofing around till 3:00 am, but up again at 8:00 am (with bloodshot eyes and a stout cup of coffee!).

~~Matt

[WeWillWriteUaSong]

Thanks for the kind words Matt. It means a lot coming from a real expert like yourself. I just wanted to make sure my post/question didn't come off as disrespectful in any way. Very much enjoying the TAXI ride so far and looking forward to the new doors opening. I'll bring my laptop so we can make a beat while you stumble about

[HenriettaAtkin]

+1

Matt, your posts are full of great information and have a great encouraging vibe. Thanks so much!

[andygabrys]

I have been retaining from posting on this one as it seems to be well covered by the respondents above but the tile "Are Sync Fees Realistic" could be taken two ways:

1) is it realistic to get syncs at all - total YES on that. just got back from cashing a modest one from an exclusive TAXI friendly publisher

2) are the sync fees on these huge jobs realistic? Again - I say yes.

As has been well detailed above, the chances of landing it are very small as there are SO MANY sources of music available especially as the budgets increase on some jobs, but really submitting a piece gives you about as much chance as anyone. The ad business is notoriously fickle and directions change at the drop of a hat - when chips are down they move quickly.

And even as commercial music house staffers "re-tread" their material for the next add, so do many here. If it doesn't make it for that ad might as well pitch it to one of your existing contacts or another TAXI listing. Kind of win win.

[WeWillWriteUaSong]

Thank you Andy for your response. Great information to know. I really appreciate the expertise here on the forums. I think i probably should have phrased better - more like "are sync fees dollar amounts realistic as listed" . I know TAXI just posts the listing as it is requested by the listing party. So when a listing party states - "paying up to 2,000" for a placement - i wasnt sure what a TAXI member could expect to see if placed with that party. I know some are split 50/50 and are stated in the listings clearly, but was just curious how many forumeers were successful in nabbing some of these sync fees - and did they end up matching what the listing stated.

I know once a forward happens - the odds vary depending...but I was more curious on what happens once actually signed/placed. I saw on another post someone stated that up front fees were becoming more rare - so I wanted to ask respectfully to the successful members - how close the end deal ended up compared to the listing when a sync fee was promised - or did u have to negotiate much? Confusing I know, I'm sorry I'm a noob I saw a few listings that said more money will be paid if it's a major artist and a less for an unknown. That's pretty cut and dry. So hypothetically if I got a forward on a 2k listing, and luckily one day get the contact - would i be offered 2k (if no split was listed) ? Or would it be less since I'm not a major label artist? If a TAXI member lands the Olympic listing deal...would they get 150k? Or would an "up-to" take effect since it's not Avicii. Also I'm sure it depends on the deal.

Again just curiosities from a TAXI noob and I really appreciate everyone's kindness and answers and opinions on the subject.

Marcus