ASCAP/BMI publisher membership situation

[rk000]

Hello everyone, I wondered if you wise veterans out there might be able to help me sort something out. A song from our album was recently forwarded to a major basic cable network for TV use. While I know no deal or use is guaranteed, I wanted to make sure I have everything in order in case something good does happen. The project was messy (people with a lot of artistic talent but poor organization and business skills, surprise), so in hopes of being able to submit all of the album tracks (including those I didn't write), we came up with a publishing agreement to give my LLC the right to try to exploit the material since I'm the only one in any position to try to make something happen with it. One of the co-writers on this particular song had never joined a PRO. The other co-writer is with ASCAP. My LLC is affiliated with ASCAP as a publisher. However, after hearing about this forward, the previously-unaffiliated writer just joined BMI. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe an ASCAP publisher can only represent the same percentage of publishing as the ASCAP writer's share of a song and the same holds true for a BMI publisher and BMI writer. So, for example, if an ASCAP writer and a BMI writer split the writer's share evenly, but there is only an ASCAP publisher, it would seem the ASCAP publisher can only get half of the total publishing, yes?Here are my questions:1) Do I stand any chance of getting any publishing on this negotiating with a major network? I've signed instrumentals to music libraries and have given up all my publishing for that, but wasn't sure quite how it would work with a TV network. Would anyone recommend using subscription-based legal services to hire an entertainment attorney to negotiate something like this?2) If there is a chance of this, do I need to be affiliated as a publisher with both ASCAP and BMI to collect the full publishing since the writers are split?3) If I need to join BMI as a publisher, is it enough to complete a 'doing business as' or 'fictitious name' form to join with my current LLC or do you have to form an entirely different entity? 4) As far as the timing, since there is a lag between any actual use on TV and the PRO survey, would it be best to wait until there is a real need to do anything about this?I apologize that this is confusing, but I would really appreciate any help. Thank you!

[chriscarter]

Unless things have changed, you will need to join BMI as a publisher as well in order to represent the BMI writer's interests. It is common for publishers that represent writers to do things like spell their name backwards, or do a slight alternate of their name for this purpose. That said, call ASCAP and double check as I've never personally been in that situation.Jan 26, 2009, 2:37pm, rk000 wrote:1) Do I stand any chance of getting any publishing on this negotiating with a major network? I've signed instrumentals to music libraries and have given up all my publishing for that, but wasn't sure quite how it would work with a TV network. Would anyone recommend using subscription-based legal services to hire an entertainment attorney to negotiate something like this?I have NEVER had a network ask for any publishing on any of the songs I've placed in TV shows. Usually they will only ask for publishing if they sign you to a writer's deal where you are regularly cranking out stuff for a specific show (i.e. their own library). Regarding an attorney, my official stance is always to tell people to hire a qualified attorney based on word of mouth referrals. That said, consider that it is very likely the attorney's fees will cost more than you will make on the single placement.Quote:2) If there is a chance of this, do I need to be affiliated as a publisher with both ASCAP and BMI to collect the full publishing since the writers are split? As I stated above, I THINK so. But double check as things may have changed in recent years. Quote:3) If I need to join BMI as a publisher, is it enough to complete a 'doing business as' or 'fictitious name' form to join with my current LLC or do you have to form an entirely different entity? You just need to register with a different publishing name. Technically in most parts of the U.S. you would need to do a fictitious name, but nobody will ever check as you can have the checks made out to your LLC.Quote:4) As far as the timing, since there is a lag between any actual use on TV and the PRO survey, would it be best to wait until there is a real need to do anything about this?Yes. You can always ask BMI to hold a name (ASCAP does this, I'm assuming BMI does as well) and then if it gets placed you know the publishing info to give to the music supervisor.

[slideboardouts]

Everything Chris said in his post is in line with my experiences thus far.I'll also add that with BMI I don't think you need to do a DBA to collect publishing, but with ASCAP I think you do. With BMI you just click 200% and you're all set to collect publishing (of course the split would be different if you were sharing any of the publishing/writers share).-Steve

[rk000]

Thanks for your help, Chris and Steve!

[guscave]

If your LLC controls the publishing, it should be registered with both ASCAP and BMI (using different names). This way both PROs can collect for their corresponding members. As mentioned before, I've never heard of a network owning the publishing unless you're doing "work for hire". I strongly suggest that if you're going to deal with a network on your own, you find a good music attorney.

[bluntbeats314]

i have a similar question can someone please help me out, here it goes:i did a project with 2 friends of mine ( rapper and singer). long story short we're all ASCAP members but we're writers as none of us have a publishing LLC. correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't our split go 3 ways at 50%? nothing may come of the project but i'm sure i read somewhere that the publisher's share is 50% from jump unless you're a serious with a lot of pull. i've been searching for this answer for 2 days now.thanks in advance

[slideboardouts]

Jan 27, 2009, 4:45pm, bluntbeats314 wrote:i have a similar question can someone please help me out, here it goes:i did a project with 2 friends of mine ( rapper and singer). long story short we're all ASCAP members but we're writers as none of us have a publishing LLC. correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't our split go 3 ways at 50%? nothing may come of the project but i'm sure i read somewhere that the publisher's share is 50% from jump unless you're a serious with a lot of pull. i've been searching for this answer for 2 days now.thanks in advance As far as I know you can split up the writers share however you want really. Thats up to the 3 of you, but I generally just do an even split because it can get to be a headache to try and quantify in percentages who did how much work etc.Just make sure that everybody is in agreement as to how it is split, and I would get it in writing if possible. You never know when a friend is going to flip out on you. I know that sounds kind of pessimistic and uptight but you hear about that kind of thing happening all the time on every level in every industry. Better safe than sorry.-Steve

[chriscarter]

Jan 27, 2009, 4:45pm, bluntbeats314 wrote:i have a similar question can someone please help me out, here it goes:i did a project with 2 friends of mine ( rapper and singer). long story short we're all ASCAP members but we're writers as none of us have a publishing LLC. correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't our split go 3 ways at 50%? nothing may come of the project but i'm sure i read somewhere that the publisher's share is 50% from jump unless you're a serious with a lot of pull. i've been searching for this answer for 2 days now.thanks in advance You are correct. The publishers get 50% and the writers get 50% when it comes to performance royalties. With ASCAP, if you are a songwriter who has not signed a publishing deal, you MUST ALSO register as a publisher or you will only get half your money.