Back to basics - How do YOU start a beat?

[Len911]

The most natural way imo, would be to start with the metronome, set it at the speed (bpm) that feels right, with 1 finger on the kick key and 1 on the snare, or any 2 different sounds, and punch in a beat into a midi track. You can always go back and change the sounds, add maybe a hihat syncopated to the snare or whatever, add fills... but you have the basic position and feel of the beat. If you go back through and punch in a 1 finger bass note, (possibly the root of the chord), you basically have what is called the groove.

For me it's hard to draw in notes and then try to humanize or quantize them, or start with a preset that never seems quite right, and it's too hard not to stray and be distracted by a preset type of drum track, if that makes any sense. Once you try out a preset, you lose the feel you had in mind in the first place.

I suppose you could also record your voice saying boom chukka chukka, or ONE, two and, THREE, four ay and a
or whatever the pattern?? And then just enter the drum sounds and velocities in a midi track at the same positions.

I don't think the sound really matters as long as you have the rhythm and velocity. You could use a piano or handclap and fingersnap for all it's worth.

[Paulie]

I pick a full kit in the genre I'm writing for. Then I lay down bass and snare, or I lay down hi-hat first. Then that's it... bass, snare, hat. Then, as the tune progresses I may go and mess with the snare or kick to get the sound I want. Usually I'm layering instead of flat out replacing sounds. Sometimes I just tweak EQ for each one.

I'm in Logic Pro X, so depending on the genre I use the standard Drum Kit Designer, or the Drummer feature. Other times I'll use Toontrack Superior Drummer if I'm going for something that sounds more human like a jazz track.

Paulie

[markhimley]

I've tried a few of these approaches also.

What I used to do exclusively, and still do sometimes, is just pull up an instance of Ultrabeat (stock drum designer in Logic Pro X) and pick a kit that sounds appropriate, and come up with a groove. Like Len, I would just record manually to the click and play on my midi keyboard. I would then go into the piano roll and edit the beat until I had something that inspired me to move forward with the piece. When I first started, I would only use this one instance of the full kit as the entirety of my drums. I wouldn't split them up and treat the kick/snare/hats all separately. Once I started separating them I noticed big improvements in my mixes.

However, as I've been watching more and more production tutorials ranging from EDM to Hip-Hop, I have noticed that most of the people use audio files and just copy them. Like you said, this means there is no dynamics though in the percussion. I wonder though, if that would make it significantly easier to make your track louder. After all, if the kick and snare are the same velocity and volume the entire track, it would be very easy mix them in and it would prevent that one random peak that limits your volume if that makes sense. Just a thought. I think I may try this approach and see for myself.

What I currently do mostly is use kits that I have built up over time. I have quite a few instruments created in the EXS24 which is Logic's sampler. One has all my favorite kicks, one has snares, etc. I also have an instrument that is a combination of the kicks and snares that I find myself using the most, and that is where I usually start when making a beat now. At the end, I may test out other kick/snare sounds in my other instruments, but it gives me a great starting point. For hihats I still use Ultrabeat, I found some that I liked and never felt a reason to change I guess.

[Len911]

However, a big part of what I'm asking about is choosing the right sounds and managing them. When you say 'kick key' and 'snare key' where is that kick and snare? GM set? All in one VI? Is that a kit that you bought or made? Or, are they spread across multiple VIs? How do you set up for a flexible approach to auditioning, selecting and working with your best sounds, which can change with song, or you might change your mind whilst creating the song?

Then I missed the biggest part, because I didn't say anything about choosing and auditioning sounds,lol!

I was going to say that I didn't have that many drums, but I keep remembering what I have and forgot about,lol! My main drums that I use are Ocean Way. I bought a DL package of maybe 6 or 7 drums, I have a few bonus kicks, but I only bought 1 multi kit. kit #3. I auditioned all 19 kits and chose kit #3. They are Kontakt Player, and you can mix and match the kits, though I usually go back to #3. One of the features of the Ocean Way was that they are pre-mixed. My thinking at the time was that most drummers in the old days usually just used 1 set anyway. I do have like an African Percussion library for congas, and bongos type of thing, and a collection of electronic drum waves for electronica, what I'm missing though is a jazz kit, and I'd probably only need 1,lol! I guess I'm not really into drums?? If I compose using Pizzicato, I'll use something like sampletank because it's a general midi sound source rompler, though I just got an email today saying they are working on the next revision that will use vst for people who want a better sound to compose with?

Maybe that's my philosophy on most instruments, just give me one and all the articulations, and I'll be happy, I'm not sure,lol!

[Kolstad]

I haven't done much hip hop, but have used all of the approaches you list from time to time, depending on the project. I usually don't layer drums much (except from occasional x-layer in Superior Drums), so I more use compression to get the fatness I want.

I guess in hip hop it's common to spend a lot of time to achieve a great unique kick-snare sound, so I guess anything that'll get you there is viable, messy or not.

I'd say NI Battery or Impact in Studio One could be the cleanest approach to set up something for a hip hop template.

I think you point to a common challenge here, Graham, but I have not found any one way to solve it.

[Len911]

I just realized I missed perhaps the most important word in this post, hip-hop. Forget everything I said,lol, I shouldn't have posted because I know nothing about it! Having said that, recently I've been revisiting synths, and there are many drums that are synthesized, effected, arpeggiated, sequenced, modulated within the synth themselves.

If you scroll down to the audio examples and expansion sound sets you can listen to them.
https://www.tone2.com/electra2.html

if you scroll down to the overview video, in the beginning they show a patch browser with a drum, drum line and percussive categories. In this particular synth there are 4 synths in one, I would imagine that what they are playing in the video is what can be done at once, meaning, I don't think they have multiple instances of the synth or recorded tracks they laid down before added to what's going on now, although there is perceived to be because of all the modulation going on.

Ok, for knowing virtually nothing about these type genres I've managed to rattle on about a casual observation, I'll be quiet!

[WeWillWriteUaSong]

I produce mainly hip-hop and urban genres. I usually (not always) start with a synth melody on a click. I find a synth sound I like and tweak it until the whole idea for the beat seems to be contained in that one sound/melody. Then I move to drums. For this I use a vsti called Geist. For years i used Reason re-wired into my daw just to use the ReDrum. Since I found Geist, this is what I always use. kolstad mentioned Impact in StudioOne. Very similar to Geist. So this would work as well if you use S1 (which I happen to). Geist comes with some very useful kits and you can obviously use any one-shots you've collected. The browser is great, and you can shortlist sounds as you find them. And drag and drop. It's also a great sampler/slicer.

I always layer kicks and snares. Sometimes snares with claps. This not only gives phatness but also unique sounds when mixed together correctly (which geist makes easy). I almost always play the drums with my akai pads, but geist also has a great flstyle step sequencer making programming lines a breeze.

HTH

https://www.fxpansion.com/products/geist2/

I have not yet upgraded to v2, but I'm sure it's only been improved. For anything non hip-hop I use Addictive Drums.

[LamarPecorino]

Thanks for asking this question, Graham. I'm wanting to start work on some Hip Hop/Urban cues, but wasn't really sure how to begin developing the drum track. Great ideas!!

[mojobone]

Usually for hiphop, I just poke a keyboard with a couple three fingers, (kick, snare, hat) or if I haven't found the sounds yet, I'll beatbox something and loop it. I have an MPC, but I haven't integrated it into my workflow, as of yet. For most everything else, I'll start with a MIDI loop and an Addictive Drums kit. It all gets replaced by live drumming, later.

[Len911]

Great answers coming in, and that's what's fantastic here at Taxi. Anywhere else I'd have been slammed with suggestions like "go look on Google"
Thanks to all so far. The replies are very interesting and I'm glad there seems to be some mileage in the topic for others too.

Geist2 looks/sounds great - a sort of Battery plus sampler and sequencer. That's definitely going on my 'watch out for a sale' list. Thanks a lot Marcus. I'm on Cubase (Artist 9), but still have no objection to dipping into Acid Pro 7 when its easier for some things (and it often is when working with pitched loops). Unfortunately, that rules out items specific to Logic and S1 for me, but don't let that stop anybody from chiming in about those or anything else - its all good.

How does Geist2 give you anymore than you already have in Cubase? It's $199, it's $249 to upgrade to Cubase Pro from Artist 9, if the Artist version doesn't have everything, plus whatever the upgrade might add. To make matters even more confusing,lol, you can buy a $149 synthesizer that allows you to either resynthesize your drum sound or create a wavetable, and totally transform the sound by editing partials, morphing, modulating, filtering, effecting.... and so much more than just drums.