Bad lyrics in great songs.

Songwriting, songwriters, etc

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arkjack
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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by arkjack » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:46 am

For any of you who are too young to know, recordings used to be pressed on vynl disks that if exposed to too much heat or sunlight would warp and become wavey when looked at from the side..... these sounds can still be heard in many rap and hip hop songs...... and of course the all time album side jam record.... (one of)..... In a Gadda Da Vida ......ArkJack

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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by jeffe » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:20 am

Ah nostalgia.The smell of a brand new vinyl disc when first taken out of it's sleeve. You just don't get that with CD's.
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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by horacejesse » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:37 am

There is no such thing that I know of. It is a contrdiction in terms, not much different from asking what is the best lousy song you have heard? Hmmm...what is the best lousy song you have never heard?

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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by jeffe » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:30 am

Well. I suppose it's as I explained it in the initial post. Lyrics that don't seem to fit.I'd say that a few examples of that have been provided.I might agree that it was a contradiction if a lyric and a song were both the same thing, but they are not. A lyric is often an element of a song, so therefore it can be assessed individually. Would you not agree that that is what we do on here when we say something like "Great music but the lyrics need attention".All the elements of a song do not have to be great for the song to be great. We are providing examples of songs with questionable lyrics, that became hits.While we pick each others songs apart, it's good to remind ourselves that even the successful make those mistakes, and they get hits out of it.It's a bit of fun, and a bit of reality.
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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by horacejesse » Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:10 pm

Unable to provide examples of what, to me, does not exist. A great melody can co-exist with poor lyrics, but they cannot both live in a great song. Song means sung. Would you consider it a great meal if the waiter brought out a platter with a beautiful lobster on one side and the turd of a homeless wino on the other? Would you rave about how good the main dish was but explain that the side dish needed a little work?

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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by jeffe » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:52 pm

It's really ok if it doesn't exist for you, but just because it doesn't exist for you, does not mean you can exclude the opinions of everyone else in the world to suit you own.Some of us do believe that it's possible.Song means sung?Wikipedia states:"A song is a relatively short musical composition for the human voice"That looks to me like it includes the music too.You comments about the lobster are disproportionate to the original point.It's like you are claiming that I am inferring that the entire lyrical section has to be "Bad". Please correct me if that is not what you meant. Generally, human turds, though varying in size, shape and consistency, are quite big.A better analogy would be "Waiter, there's a fly in my soup".Though I do admit to being partial to a bit of lobster
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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by horacejesse » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:13 pm

Simmer down there, gal, I'm not trying to stifle your opinions or convert you to mine. Of course, my point was: You will not call it a great meal even if everything but that side dish was great. Why won't you touch your lobster? You're right, that is the way it is for me only. You see what you see and hear what you hear. But for me it is a misnomer, honey, I stand on terra firma. Read up. The lyrics are the most important half of a song. I honestly cannot think of any such critter as you describe, because to me it cannot be great without being complete. I will only see it as a song that might be great if it had a decent set of lyrics. It is only great if it works for me, it only works for me if the lyrics work too. Are you reading me?

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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by jeffe » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:56 am

Hey. Of course I am reading you I'm quite enjoying this.Simmer down?I'm as cool as a cucumber.I appreciate your opinion on this. I'm not sure if I totally agree on lyrics being the most important part. From my perspective. Great lyrics are the ones that conjour images to mind. Great music does exactly the same (Well to me it does). It's all about sparking the imagination.So I think the lyrics and music play an equal part. They've got to dance with each other.Am I right in saying that you see "A great song" as a perfect song? Lyrically and musically?Because that might be where we differ in our opinion.We're getting good at using analogies on here, so here goes A great man can be called great because of his great achievements. However, he will have probably done some not so great things too. He is forgiven for this, and still regarded as great, because the great things he has done, outweigh the bad things.So that's my take on it.If I hear a song that touches every part of me, but it has one questionable line. I will still call it great because the good things far outweigh the bad.That's how I assess greatness.
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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by jchitty » Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:18 am

Quote:Hey. Of course I am reading you I'm quite enjoying this.Simmer down?I'm as cool as a cucumber.I appreciate your opinion on this. I'm not sure if I totally agree on lyrics being the most important part. From my perspective. Great lyrics are the ones that conjour images to mind. Great music does exactly the same (Well to me it does). It's all about sparking the imagination.So I think the lyrics and music play an equal part. They've got to dance with each other.Am I right in saying that you see "A great song" as a perfect song? Lyrically and musically?Because that might be where we differ in our opinion.We're getting good at using analogies on here, so here goes A great man can be called great because of his great achievements. However, he will have probably done some not so great things too. He is forgiven for this, and still regarded as great, because the great things he has done, outweigh the bad things.So that's my take on it.If I hear a song that touches every part of me, but it has one questionable line. I will still call it great because the good things far outweigh the bad.That's how I assess greatness.As far as lyrics being that important, you have a point. Lyrics may have been really important in the past, but America seems to have a short attention now. Maybe everyone is just so busy. No one wants to take the time to 'think' about anything anymore, so a catchy melody and a good hook seem to be what draw listeners in. Most of my friends can remember the chorus words, hook and melody, but most all of them flub the verse lines.

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Re: Bad lyrics in great songs.

Post by Casey H » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:04 am

Quote: As far as lyrics being that important, you have a point. Lyrics may have been really important in the past, but America seems to have a short attention now. Maybe everyone is just so busy. No one wants to take the time to 'think' about anything anymore, so a catchy melody and a good hook seem to be what draw listeners in. Most of my friends can remember the chorus words, hook and melody, but most all of them flub the verse lines. Ah! A great example of the double standard that makes new writers have to be so good. If an established writer writes a song with a great chorus/hook but the verse lyrics have issues, they probably can still present it to artists that know them and those verse details can still be worked out with re-write or or co-write. Or some non-optimal lyric might even be left in. A killer hook forgives a lot of sins. We all hear things on the radio and say, "huh"? As a new writer, like it or not, gaffes of almost any kind will often mean your song will never make it to an artist.Chit- I think you are right when you point out these are different times. This is not the 60's or 70's when people sat around smoking weed, staring at the bizarre covers of their vinyl albums, and conjecturing over the deep mysteries of the lyrics. (Damn! I was born way too late ) Casey

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