Baffled Once again!!

[onelight24]

Well gentlemen, I certainly appreciate all the wonderful feedback, it does help in the understanding of the returns! My response is a little long winded to address all the points made. Thanks for your patience!

1. - Mazz, as I understand it is business, it is for this reason I question the model! Since my money does not grow on trees, I want to know that the money I do spend to advance my career as a composer, is money well spent, a good investment into a product that claims to work! The product of course being Taxi, & the claims it makes! So far, for me, I am not seeing the return on my investment, just returns on my music! As any investment instrument, I do know that patience is a good thing, yet investments can lead one to loose a lot of money before any little movement towards the upswing occurs! Lastly, here in Canada there is amble re-course for the consumer when we are dissatisfied with the purchase of a product or service, which I do not see here with Taxi!

As for the music being cluttered in arrangement, I invite you to listen to "Renzo Arbore", 'Gigi D'Alessio', Pino Danielle, sal DaVinci, Gigi Finizio, Massimo Ranieri, & Mina, these are some of the artists/bands I referenced amongst others, (which names elude me at the moment) & attempted to emulate. Perhaps you'll understand where I was coming from! Working & re-working is exactly what I am doing! Validation of one's work instills further confidence, as perhaps you well know!
Thanks for your thoughts!

2. - Dave, the tambourine in Argenite's French Chocolate is played in live, no sample, & I chose not to quantize to lend it some authenticity. Clearly I was mistaken in that assertion!
As for the violin, it is taken from EWQL S.O. Gold solo violin key-switch patch. I worked the different articulations as well as CC11, & CC7. What you are then suggesting is that perhaps I did not do a very good job! Thanks for your kind words about the composition!


3. Rob (Cruciform) - I appreciate the sentiment of your empathy! I do believe however that being in it for only six months & achieving what you have is great! Continued success to you!

4. - Chuck, I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. As I agree that a referral is at times easier, & stands more ground than simply attempting to cold call a production library to pave the road towards a relationship, & yet that is my very point! When I am asked to pay membership fees, as well as submission fees on the premiss of opening the door for that particular relationship to develop, & that does not happen over a reasonable period of time, I will then question the authenticity of the claims being made! Confidence is key in asserting one's music, I believe to have confidence in my ability as a composer, yet at the moment it seems, not so much so in my ability as an engineer, & for this I do not achieve the perceived success nor am I able to reap the benefits of this supposed system. It seems clear to me that a really good engineer, can be seen as a good composer, ... yet a good composer, who is not quite a good engineer, is seen as a bad composer! Strange!
This is of course my opinion based on my experience to date!
Lastly, I do not believe to be bashing Taxi, simply asking questions of it, which I believe my fully paid membership gives me the right to do so!

5. - Rob (rnrmachine), I appreciate your thoughts as well on this matter. Interesting thing is that I am of Italian descent, & this sort of music is what I've grown up with & continue to hear. I also referenced authentic music of the two regions that I wrote for. As for the faking of the tambourine, its not a sample its played in live, & as mentioned, left un-quantized as to lend to the authenticity of the region.
As for the instrumentation of the tracks I assure you snare is used quite a bit in the music of these regions, that came out in the 1950's & 60's. Also, there is this exact instrumentation, of the tuba, d.bass, snare, guitar, violin ( I also use mandolin, again played in live) in Fellini's movie 8 1/2, the composer is Nino Rota. So I am not sure I was faking, more so attempting to emulate! The changing of instruments in taking the lead is for me about a dialogue between the instruments, a dialogue amongst lovers!
As for the authenticity of the instruments of the particular regions, again I believe that is exactly what I did. There is Italian folk music which uses button accordion, tambourine, & at times guitar, along with vocals - they are referred to as Tarentellas! There is also a a tremdous amount of Italian folk music which uses the violin as well as the mandolin, as the lead instrument.
As for the French track, I also know that there is a temendous amount of their music which uses the violin as well as the accordion as the main instrument.
Thanks for your thoughts Rob, it is appreciated!

So, I am left pondering of the elusive relationships those of you who have achieved the 'success' of a forward, have been able to cultivate! Yet questions remain of my business association with Taxi! It is business after-all, & I would hate to think that this business thrives on the failures of its members, & not necessarily on the success of it. For every one person who may be fortunate enough to receive the elusive forward, there are far more who are returned. All of these people pay the same membership fees as well as submission fees! Carrot on the stick syndrome, perhaps, or just illusion! Don't know yet! However I will always ask questions, that is how we evolve & grow!

Thanks for taking the time to shed some light on these matters, it is truly appreciated!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[onelight24]

Vincent,

I had a listen to your tracks and have a few thoughts.

Overall everything seems crowded and heavy. I think in general your are adding too much too soon.

When I do an ethnic track I try to picture my ensemble on stage or in the case of these "cafe" type tracks, possibly in the piazza in Sorrento.

The first question I ask is: who is in the ensemble? The second question, what is there roll in the ensemble ? (melody, accompaniment, added color)

A very big question is: when are they playing and when are they laying back to support the ensemble OR laying out completely?

When I listen to your tracks I feel everyone wants to be playing at all times. And, in particular on Argenites French Chocolate, moving together rhythmically. (it is similar to a drum playing every beat of the measure on every drum. In 3/4 time, a drummer will play the downbeat on the bass drum, the hi hat on 2 and 3 and snare on three. The part breathes!!)

On this track the bass IMO should be simply stating the root of the chord with a light plucked sound on the downbeat. The guitar plays two and three (and not on one) This now breathes a little more.

I would leave the percussion out of this track completely. I think the guitar and bass can carry the basic feel just fine. Let the other instruments logically have their entrances to build the track and add color. You have both the violin and accordian commenting during the guitar solo. If I were the guitar player in a live performance and they did this I would give them a dirty look to suggest they lay out , this is my solo spot , damn it. (this thought is also coming from the perspective of visualizing the ensemble performing) When the violin enters at :48 you now have a nice duet building out of the guitar solo and a nice variation in color.


Regarding Neopolitan Flavors, I think there are similar issues. I would leave out the percussion and the tuba completely. Both parts are dragging the track down. This too should be delicate.

I think the music you've written for these tracks works. I think you now need to think like an audience member and watch your ensemble perform. "I see the violinist in the shadows, I wonder if she can play and when will she start playing." You are not holding back any surprises, everybody's in the pool at once.

HTH,

I have signed deals on Italian and French tracks. (as well as Japanese, Chinese, India and Brazilian music) This is the approach I take on every track.


Chuck

Thank you Chuck for taking the time to share your insights & tips, it is truly appreciated!

Cheers,
Vincent!

[crs7string]

Vincent,

My comments about bashing TAXI were not directed at you. I was simply trying to elaborate on the idea of frustration at various points along the road in this vehicle called TAXI.

Sorry for any confusion.

I do think the "missing ingredient" for you is time. As I have said in other posts "Rome wasn't build in a day, neither is a successful production music catalog"

The production skill sets do come with time and a lot of work, study and critical listening. Critical listening of your own and other people's music. (including production music)

I've learned a lot by listening to Matt Hirt's tracks. (the Gold Standard) as well as visiting production music sites and listening to the "competition"

All of this takes time.

A year from now we can all show improvement in what we do OR it can just be a year later. The difference, to me, is doing the heavy lifting necessary to show the improvement.


Sorry if this sounds "preachy"


Chuck

[fret17]

Hi Vincent....I just wanted to add something that I've had to come to terms with myself in regards to forwards and returns....I've read your concerns and the replys....I recently got not one, not two, but three boxes checked on my last Y/N listing....I'm with Mazz , there should be no boxes...I would've been fine with just the recording box being checked, but nooooo.....this screener thought "Hey I'll go the extra mile and check "vocal performance" too...and while I'm at it I'll just go ahead and mark the "music" box as well so this guy KNOWS he sucks....Did I deserve it?...no..."Recording" would have been sufficiant....
So what I've had to come to grips with is nothing I do will ever get forwarded and it's because I don't have, what I like to call, "Industry Ears". I like music. period. It doesn't have to be "broadcast quality", or Mastered in a studio or arranged with perfect samples for me to enjoy or be moved by it..unfortunately the Industry does, and relies on companies like Taxi or other professional sources to provide that perfection they demand when they can't find it "In House"
Musical ideas...great lyrics...sampled sounds...perfect production and arrangement awesome vocals as well as perfect match to an often vague listing is what it "MIGHT" take to get a forward....there will always be something that can be used as an excuse for not forwarding...
We're not here to write what WE think is a listing match....we're here to write what THEY think is a listing match....and that aint easy....maybe it gets easier as the years roll on and we're willing to stick with it..but if you don't think it will happen then why are we still here?....for me...it's to pay my dues and learn.
Best of luck with future submissions Vincent....

[ckbarlow]

V:

One of the most fundamental things I've learned in my time with TAXI is that in production music, there's often nothing terribly complicated going on -- and that does not mean it's poorly composed or "dumbed down." Often the opposite: the best stuff is rather elegantly and often very cleverly composed to maintain interest while sounding deceptively simple. But no matter what, it must be impeccably performed and produced. It has to be able to sit politely in the background, like it or not.

I feel for you. My pre-TAXI background -- indie rock performance in an era when it was cool to not be precise, then a comp degree in which I mainly focused on really complicated, barely listenable found-sound pieces , and then some experience in the quick-turn world of local live theater in which I barely had time to compose and record, much less fret over (or learn about) production quality -- meant that I came into TAXI focused 99% on intricate composition and 1% on actually producing something usable as production music. Two distinct but mutually compounding problems. I've radically changed -- let's say expanded -- my composing style and I learn something every day about hitting that "sweet spot" where the music is just interesting enough without being distracting. I've also grown by leaps and bounds in the last year as my own producer. Heck, even back in my indie rock days, my brother (who was my collaborator), kept saying, Simplify, simplify, simplify.

Just today I listened to some tracks by an indie pop artist called Secrets in Stereo, who has had about 50 placements, including Grey's Anatomy. And I was struck all over again by how high the bar is for those placements.

I have to disagree that TAXI is willing to call an engineer a composer and not vice versa. The fact is, for this gig you must be a self-producing composer. Unless you have funds to work with a professional studio to realize your pieces, you must become part engineer. And it has to be just as high a priority as composing, which has been my biggest mental shift. (For artists looking to get signed, the song is still the top priority, but I'm talking production music.)

As for authenticity... another lesson is that sometimes "real" is not "real" enough. This is an analogy, but just as an example, I saw a trailer the other day in which a character pulls a thorn from her flesh. You can guess that the accompanying sound effect was far louder and "juicier" than reality. My point here is that production music sometimes plays by different rules -- even though "authenticity" was mentioned in the listing, I have to agree that the live tambourine was simply too loose -- because that made it stick out. Another great analogy is when cuisine migrates from one culture to another. How many ethic cuisines have been "Anglicized" or "Americanized" to suit (supposedly) our tastes? Same idea. I have what I would call a "fake Reggae" tune that was deliberately very tame, because it was for a travel ad - and it was forwarded (Pecking Corn). Now I'm working on a Reggae tune that is supposed to actually sound like a record, like Tosh or Toots, so I'm taking a very different approach. Looser, but still coherent/tight enough to sit behind a movie scene without grabbing too much attention.

All, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in the following statement: Production music doesn't typically want things to stick out in a mix or performance. That's one case where "real" isn't quite right. It shouldn't be robotic, but it needs to be, as I said, impeccably performed and produced. Frankly, if I were sitting at the hypothetical cafe and the tambourine performance were that carefree, I'd have to be pretty full of a nice Italian red not to notice it, even in the non-production music context.

Vince, your stuff is consistently interesting and inventive. You can do this. Tough it out.

CK

[rnrmachine]

Hey Vincent,

I wrote a fairly large paragraph explaining myself. Explaining how some PA hick would be aware of world music. Trying to make sure you understand I had good intentions etc... I was just about to hit submit and I thought... not another long post, so I just deleted it. All I really want to say to you is, you can take this advice from people.. sift through it and decide which is good, which is bad and which is irrelevant... Or you can let yourself believe that Taxi actually passes through a few inner circle people and lets the rest of it's members pay up and dream on. I am not about to defend Taxi, I know what I believe is the truth about Taxi, something I had to figure out and decide for myself.

The only thing I will say about Taxi is, they are VERY human, recent events have made me quite aware of that. But I haven't called up wanting a refund because good and bad considered. I personally believe being a member of Taxi IS the right thing for ME to do at this point in time. You need to decided this for yourself too, then you can STOP worrying about whether or not Taxi is for real and get to making professional music that in the future will find a home, with or without Taxi.

Good Luck in whatever you do,

Rob

[ckbarlow]

Rob's right; it's entirely your call. I'd just hate to see you walk away from an avenue, when it's clear that we each need every shot we can get.

To me, paying for two years at a time, it's $150/year, plus submission fees... That's less than I used to spend hyping my rock band in Boston -- 20 years ago.

[fret17]

Hey Vincent,

I wrote a fairly large paragraph explaining myself. Explaining how some PA hick would be aware of world music. Trying to make sure you understand I had good intentions etc... I was just about to hit submit and I thought... not another long post, so I just deleted it. All I really want to say to you is, you can take this advice from people.. sift through it and decide which is good, which is bad and which is irrelevant... Or you can let yourself believe that Taxi actually passes through a few inner circle people and lets the rest of it's members pay up and dream on. I am not about to defend Taxi, I know what I believe is the truth about Taxi, something I had to figure out and decide for myself.

The only thing I will say about Taxi is, they are VERY human, recent events have made me quite aware of that. But I haven't called up wanting a refund because good and bad considered. I personally believe being a member of Taxi IS the right thing for ME to do at this point in time. You need to decided this for yourself too, then you can STOP worrying about whether or not Taxi is for real and get to making professional music that in the future will find a home, with or without Taxi.

Good Luck in whatever you do,

Rob

There's no doubt taxi is real...People have and will continue to make money through their Taxi connection....what I think most members come to realize after a short while is that their music has a long way to go and they're looking to find a short cut and there aint any....I'll use this analogy.....the listing is the patient.....Taxi is the doctor....and submissions are the organ doners....The doctor needs perfect matches to save the patient....anything less and the patient dies and the doctor is considered a quack....if the doctor needs a heart to save the patient then a Valentine won't do...no matter how pretty it might be...it aint gonna pump the blood...I read somewhere here that Taxi's forward rate is about 6%....that's pretty low....but it would be much higher if we were much better at submitting high quality stuff and quit complaining..we're competeing with the best of the best the world has to offer and for most of us our only realistic chance at getting through a door into the industry...be selective with your submissions and nail it or fail it.....that's my take .....

[mazz]

Vinnie,

I don't think anyone is questioning your compositions or your research or your authenticity, and least of all your intentions!

But I think there is pretty broad agreement here that your arrangement choices and execution are a large part of what held these pieces back. There were production issues as well, but may be easily addressable by first taking out a whole bunch of stuff and then seeing what is there.

I think CK hit the nail on the head when she referred to production music needing to sound like the locale, region, etc., without being so authentic as to attract undue attention to itself in the context of a scene. Writing production music is somewhat a different animal and process from writing music for simply sitting and listening to (sadly, who does that much anymore these days anyway?), and believe me, it's an ongoing learning process that I grapple with every day!! LOL

As far as the TAXI experience, investment, etc., I think at this point if you stepped back and looked over the past year, you would see your music making improvements in leaps and bounds, and much of it is a result of writing to the listings, getting feedback from the screeners and your peers here and using that feedback to improve the next batch of pieces. It may be that for the time being you need to shift your focus from the actual end product to improving your process and bouncing the products of those processes against the TAXI listings and the peers as a measure of where you are in the process.

You are a good composer, and IMO still on the curve to figuring out the library/production music game. My advice would be to use the TAXI safety net to continue to raise your own personal bar before possibly striking out on your own either with our without TAXI at some point. My experience with the production music industry so far has been that a referral or introduction goes much further than cold calling, unless you have some credits on your resume. With TAXI, you will get that referral and introduction when your music is ready.

Chuck is absolutely right that when you do finally get with a library, you will find yourself busy filling their needs, which is a good thing. I know you'll get there if you hang in. This is a good place to learn that, and TAXI is ultimately, in the grand scheme of things, an inexpensive investment in your education and growth.

Keep at it, I feel your pain, you will get there, don't give up.

Peace,

Mazz

[onelight24]

Once again Chuck, CK, Tom, Rob, & Mazz, I thank all of you for offering your thoughts on this topic! I suppose I am still learning, as is being suggested, about what production music is, & how to produce it properly. The reason I continue to do this is because I believe, that's it! I believe in my ability to grow, to learn & to roll with it when I have to. However that does not imply I will be a door mat in the process of my learning & accept blindly! Especially not when I am paying for something!

I have received far more in this post than I did from the supposed critique, which I paid for! This is ultimately my point! I will always continue to work on my music, & yes it will undoubtedly get better, if worked at properly! I have openly agreed that my abilities have changed, grown, come to a more suitable place for production type music!

My concerns are not my growth, or wether I have the stuff or not, I believe I do, patience is perhaps what is lacking! My concerns lie with claims made & possibly not delivered! Ultimately I will always invest in my self growth as a person, as well as in one who composes, because I believe I am worth every penny! I however continue to question this investment!

There are very many generous & thoughtful people here on this forum, & for that I am grateful! In this regard, my investment has been extremely well worth it!

Blessings to all of you!

Cheers,
Vincent!