Bird on a Neumann

[hummingbird]

Hi Folks. I've rented a Neumann TLM103 for a month. Here's a totally raw early morning sample of me singing a capella . Since I've never had a decent mic, I've been concentrating on instrumental stuff but I want to get better at understand how to produce vocals effectively.I'm wondering what specific filters you might use on something like this & what sort of parameters you'd use. Compression, EQ, reverb, delay - needed?http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInf ... ummin'bird

[sgs4u]

Gosh you have a beautiful voice Vikki,If you're gonna do an a cappella version to submit, you can use a longer church reverby thing, compared to having lots of instruments. I love that the consanants are barely audible. I think that mic sounds great. Going with no reverb, is always a great choice because then you don't have to wonder if the reverb is getting in the way of the emotion. But to me, it's always the emotion the PERFORMANCE conveys. Any mic will do, as long as it gets a listener to feel something special. I am a fan of the closet mic technique(grab the closest mic to your hand) and get to work. hehe... So you can tell my advice might NOT be what you're looking for.With this particular vocal track, you sure don't need a lot of compression. The dynamics of the vocal track are important, and a compressor always removes those to a certain degree, depending on how you set it up. When there are drums involved in a production, compressing the vocal always gives it a little more ability to stay above the drums. Compressing the entire mix, makes the vocal sink back into the music a little more. As far as filters and all that stuff go, I'm not qualified as an engineer enough to really give you much better advice than what I've said here.

[hummingbird]

Thanks for listening, Steve. I pretty much like it the way it is in terms of a capella.. not bad for a raw track. If I was to add instruments then I'd have to figure out how to keep the frequencies from bumping into each other.One thing I notice is how "fat" the sound is using the Neumann - there's none of that annoying sort of 'sizzlely brightness' that I've gotten with the Apex & the Shure. But... at $1,000... it will stay on my wish list for a wee while yet

[sgs4u]

When I listened again, my thoughts were, "I gotta get a new mic." I use a Rode NT-2 that cost me about $1000, but the high end is very much like you describe. Prolly from dropping it about 20 times in 10 years...Mics are like so many bits of technology: cheaper, faster and higher quality, every time you turn your head.

[jh]

All the RØDE mics I´ve heard have that high-end hype. "Mics are like so many bits of technology: cheaper, faster and higher quality, every time you turn your head." Well Neumann mics seem to get more and more expensive every year, or maybe it´s just the inflation btw. Frank Sinatra wouldn´t sing without his Neumann/Telefunken U47

[mixopenta]

Vikki, you have a great voice and I think the Neumann mic really conveys that. (Just about) any Neumann mic is also on my wish list, and have been for many years, but there's so lot we need, and only so much money to spend. I'm also pretty sure a Neumann mic won't drop too much in price over the years. In January I sold off a lot of my old studio gear, and I was really glad I had some hi-end gear which I could sell for almost the amount I bought it for decades ago. I also had some lo-end gear which I practically had to give away.If you go with a less expensive mic, be sure you can try it out with your current pre-amps or console inputs setup, as cheaper mics tends to yield varying results depending on the electronics involved. And I'm not talking just measurable, or "only geeks" can hear artifacts, - I'm talking audible distortion, harshness, and other less desirable sounds.A couple of weeks ago I borrowed an ADK mic which sounded awful in a TL audio and Focusrite pre-amp, but sounded pretty decent in my MOTU. My AKG C414 sounds great in any preamp (at least of the one's I've tried so far).As far as processing goes, I think less is more. The less you need tweaking EQ, the better, the less you need compressing, the better, and so on and so forth. There's also the quality of these processing devices to take into account. For an A Capella track like this one, it really works as it is, the sound is warm and sweet with no quirkiness, or frequencies sticking out. For these type of tracks I'd be really careful in using any processing.As mentioned in a previous post you might need some compression in a more busy situation, where the vocals needs to be audible at all times, which suggests some compression to be applied. Here's also where a vocal track would need some filtering as well to stand out from other instruments.If combining compression along with a proper mic technique, you would need less compression. Another option is to ride, or automate the vocal levels during mix down. Compression always brings some sound artifacts into the equation, sometimes good and useful, sometimes not so good and not so useful. Having these things in mind I'm sure you will gain your own preferred method with time.In the end there's no real formula, or any right or wrong in approaching these things. - As long as it sounds good to you, it's really all you need. And it's really your ears and listening environment that makes the biggest difference.Good luck!

[aubreyz]

Vickie,Beautiful voice. Just have a second but thought I would pass on some tips. The Neumann family of mics can be tricky on high female vocals. They have wonderful air, but sometimes the presence peak can be brittle. I usually work a Neumann a little farther back than some other mics - usually in the 8 to 10" range unless doing a VO. On a female vox, a slight dip from 3 to 5k and an equally slight boost in the 12+ k range is about all the eq I would add in most cases. And by slight i mean 1 to 3db. Try different distances from the mic to find the sweet spot for your voice and there should be minimal need for eq.There are several things you can try to give the vox more body without sounding too "effected" - compression is one, or actually 2 in my world. I generally run a vox through 2 compression stages, each just barely touching the threshold and compressing less than 3db overall. I will also use at least 3 fx on the voice, though very subtle. 1. a harmonizer effect, pushed up under the vocal until you can hear it, and then backed down -- just to slightly fill it our.2. an early reflection or ambient very short reverb, once again- up until noticed then back down a bit.3. A vocal plate or hall. For a vox only mix, the settings depend on the end result desired. Is the voice in a church, a hall, outside? If it's more intimate, shorter reverb times, if it's grander, a more transparent reverb with longer times.I think the key is listening to some acapella samples that match the sound you are after, and listen to how the reverb tails off and try to emulate that.Aub

[justinatrecording]

Vikki,Ahh, nice! This is a big step in this learning process. So, there are two things to consider now.1. It sounds like you're somewhat far back from the mic. I'm hearing a lot of the room sound in this recording (especially the line "I looked over Jordon" and when you get louder). Room sound isn't always a bad thing, but the problem is you can't take it out. And, it sounds like you're in a pretty small room with hard walls. This isn't always the most pleasing sound, especially for this kind of a track.So, the closer you get to the mic, the less room sound you'll have. The other option is to record in a drier, more dead room, or a really large room. Think about facing the back of the mic towards some heavy drapes, a closet full of clothes, or something that's not reflective.2. As Aub mentioned, that mic can be a little brittle on certain voices. If you get really close, however, you'll build up what's called proximity effect. This effect creates a fuller sound with more low end, which I think you need. You'll also get more immediacy in the highs (maybe too much), but those could be tamed with EQ as Aub explained.So, now I'd think about the space you're in, and making it more neutral, and try getting closer to see what happens.Making great progress!Cheers,Justin

[ernstinen]

Ms. Bird!Now you're getting close --- what a voice you have!Question: How much limiter/compressor are you using? The loud sections are still unbalanced with the soft sections (like "a BAND of angels"). Or maybe working the mic more would help.I'm hearing a strange "metallic" resonance on some vowels, like the word "home" on the end of each chorus and verse. I've heard that before with an AKG 414 on a woman's voice, but never with a Neumann before. That's got me puzzled. Maybe one of you engineer-types could figure that out.There's a lot of other good ideas here, and you realize we're being pretty picky, but that's what you want --- Yes? No? I think it's good you're giving us a dry demo so that we can unlock how this mic works on your voice. EVERY path in the recording chain can change the sound. And you can always add the reverb etc. later, so keep posting dry recordings of this IMHO.Ern

[hummingbird]

Quote:Question: How much limiter/compressor are you using? Zilch. I deliberately did this sans anything, except a pop filter so we could really hear what is going on. Normally I do use a little compression because I know my voice is going to be stronger on the top - even if I move away from the mic. Thanks everyone for all the comments,I'll try recording again tonight with my homemade 'vocal booth' and see if that helps with the room sound.H