Bright Mix Without Attacking Ears??

[SteveBaruah]

Hi All!

Here's a mix question for you. How do you get a nice bright mix without it attacking your ears? I really want that bright presence, but without feeling like tiny ice picks are attacking my ears!

Here's my example, please see 'When the Sun Goes Down' on the below link:
http://www.taximusic.com/hosting/home.php?userid=61999

And compare it to Ed Sheeran's Thinking Out Loud:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp-EO5I60KA

Thinking Out Loud sound sooooo comfortable to listen to, yet still has that presence. How do I get there from my mix?
Have I added too much 2-5k?
Is it just because I have listened to my mix 1000 times, and my ears are now tired of hearing the same frequencies...?


Cheers!
Steve

[Len911]

2-5k just happens to be where human's hearing is most sensitive, meaning it takes less energy or db to hear.

So yeah, ear fatigue, is probably like the brain is covering it's ears from the ears,lol!

The guitar in your mix seems to sound very boosted. I'd take a look at too many sounds in the same frequency range competing for the same spot.

Also, it's natural when there is a vocal for the ear (brain) to be drawn to and focus more on it than anything else. So if the vocal is bright and airy, the perception is that the whole mix is bright perhaps.

What does warm and dark mean for a vocal mic? Flat without a presence boost or bump. What does overly bright, Chinese crispy mean? No filter circuit for the capsule. Or a Neumann-style capsule without Neumann-style electronics. And everything else pretty much falls between the extremes.

So, what did Ed use?

The relatively small amount of outboard at Sticky Studios includes this Avalon voice channel, M‑Audio Profire 2626 interface and Audient ASP008 eight‑channel preamp.

Mic‑wise, Gosling tends to favour the SE Electronics range.
Jake Gosling: Producing Ed Sheeran's
"I did a lot of the guitars using a pair of SE 4400as. The main vocals pretty much were all done on the SE Z3300a, but I've just got a new Telefunken U47, which is lovely.”

http://recordinghacks.com/microphones/S ... ics/Z3300A

As you can see in the graph, the presence boost starting at 3K to 5k, before sloping downward. So if you used this mic, you can just about tell what would happen if you start boosting 2-5k.

http://www.soundonsound.com/people/jake ... d-sheerans

Although it's interesting to see what gear was actually used, obviously there are a lot of knobs to tweak,lol, it's useful as a basis or fundamental starting place perspective. I mean engineers with the best results usually don't tweak into the extreme, they usually use a different piece of gear. The words to describe the Avalon and the Audient, at least are probably not words like "bright".
The SE Z3300a? I found 1 review from awhile ago
http://www.emusician.com/gear/1332/se-e ... mics/34488

How did it sound? While the Z3300-A didn’t have any overt “character,” neither did it have any objectionable sonic issues. The bi-directional pattern was evenly balanced insofar as front and back side response, and side rejection was very good. Recording background vocals with two singers was no problem with this mic. Omni response was open and clear. Cardioid has, of course, proximity effect, but nothing excessively pronounced.

The Z3300-A did well on most everything I put it in front of . . . drum overhead, acoustic and electric guitars, male and female vocals, hand percussion, and more — it always handled the task in a pleasing and unobtrusive way, with good balance and detail. The highs are present, but not excessively so. I would go so far as to say that this mic compares very favorably with other well-known utility mics that cost up to twice as much, and is certainly one of the better-sounding Chinese-built mics I’ve heard. Well done!

[Len911]

Oh, I forgot to mention Fletcher-Munson Curves.
That explains most everything.

You would think if there was such a thing as The Mixing Arts Council that one of the first things they would do is define, clarify, and standardize terms like warm, bright, open, sheen, sparkle da da da.
And how to get it. Because in most cases it seems the way to get there is counter-intuitive.

Otoh, it's probably the design that is closer to a wire, than a cosmetic compact, or whatever those things are with various shades of colored powder,lol!

[SteveBaruah]

Well I was hoping you were just going to say 'add 2db of 2.5k on the sub mix'

Really interesting info, Len, many thanks!

Good ears on the guitar, I was experimenting a little, I recorded quite low on a Samson C01 (I normally record guitars straight line out from the amp) on an unplugged semi acoustic. It then needed a lot volume adding and a large eq boost in the low mids.
I think you're right, I think it is the accoustic guitar which is biting my ears a little. I'll take another look at the eqing!

Interesting soundonsound article, btw!


Cheers!
Steve

[kova]

Let me also second Len's advice - it's largely in how you record your source. Literally everything matters - the mic you choose, the placement of the mic, the instrument configuration, the preamps, etc. If you try to fix it in the mix, you're more often than not going to end up with a less-than-stellar result (e.g. the aforementioned "ice picks"). So even if you have to spend an extra 30 minutes playing around with different mics and placements, that's 30 minutes that can save you upwards of up to 1-2 hours in mix time.

In terms of your song, it sounds like you recorded the guitar with the mic relatively far from the source. I'd experiment with placing the mic perhaps near the sound hole or even a bit toward the bridge, maybe about 3-6 inches away from the instrument (again, this is where experimentation comes in). If you find a placement you like, then you'd only have to do minimal EQing to get the sound you want.

Also, on a side note, have you considered doubling the guitar? Record the same thing twice and then put on hard right and the other hard left - it'll create a rich textured sound. I only mention this b/c you already have a guitar panned left so you might as well complete the set.

[SteveBaruah]

Hi Kova,

Thanks for the advice, yes, I'm learning the hard way that the prevention is better than cure!

I've played around with the left-panned guitar again, removed the low mids eq boost, boosted the low end a little and upped the slap back. I think it's improved it a lot. (Uploaded on my Taxi page if you care for a listen)


Thanks again.

[andygabrys]

Hey Steve,

If you are really hearing the Sheehan tune as a ref, I would dry things up, and try to rebalance closer to the ref. The vocal is much more out front, and like Len911 says (I think it was above) if the vocal has a certain presence and its out front in the mix, the whole mix tends to sound present. Which I think aptly describes the ref. Ref also features what sounds like a clean electric guitar playing the rhythm (or possible a DI acoustic but sounds closer to electric to my ears). Electric is going to have a brighter sound on that kind of rhythm part without a lot of top end EQ.

In the ref vocal sounds like there is a little of the 2.5-3khz kind of grit - either from his actual voice, or augmented with choice of mic and eq in mix. That helps it to pop out, as does the key of the song compared to his vocal range. In the chorus the vocal sounds bold.

my 2 cents.

[Len911]

...but keep in mind, he just bought, or whenever that article was written, a Telefunken U47.

A few years ago maybe?? There was a post about what people used for reference. I think I had listened to all my cd's on hand for the best mixing and mastering job. Aaron Neville's "Warm Your Heart" cd won hands down, incredible! I'm not really a big Neville fan, probably bought the cd for the song "Everybody Plays the Fool".

Then you sort of start investigating. Hmmm, George Massenburg, https://www.massenburg.com/
He also makes a few pieces of gear, and you read the reviews of his gear.
http://www.mixonline.com/news/others/fi ... peq/370225
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ ... aQodgvUAtw
Also referred to as the "Father of British Eq", no wait that was, John Oram, "The inventer of parametric eq", something he sort of denies.
If there was one regret I had about not owning Pro Tools HD, it's probably this:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OxGMLHD

-"Besides being clean"
-"It's the fullest clearest DI I've ever used and prefer over my Avalon (which I sold)"
Will Ed's studio do the same??
-"Almost a 3D type sound. Bigger, warmer, etc. The EQ is one of the most musical I've worked with."
-"it produces a beautiful clarity, and you really have to boost the 3k region mercilessly to produce any harshness."
-"the heavens don't open when you process vocals through a GML 2032; your room does, as well as your performance"
-"One of the sweetest and most natural sounding EQ's I've ever used."
-"The 2032 has the cleanest preamp I've ever encountered, and the equalizer is so transparent I had to keep bypassing it to make sure it was engaged. It works the way an equalizer is supposed to"
-" GML's super-clean 8300 mic preamp."
-"The preamp is exceedingly open and clean"
-"Sounded as good as units costing thousands more" Not really, that's a review reserved for cheap sh*t crap gear by publications sucking up for advertising dollars,lol!

I think the main point I am trying to make, is that what you use for a mixing reference should be based on the mix and mastering and less about a favorite song and a favorite arrangement from a favorite artist. Because when they upgrade, you must also to keep up,lol! Or you could be ahead of them, and wonder how you can degrade the mix to sound like them,lol!

[SteveBaruah]

Hi Andy, Great point! I wrestled with the reverb for ages, not wanting to go too dry or wet with it. I think sometimes you have to be braver to use a regularly-used effect less, or even not at all, than to use it a moderate amount. But I will take another look with drying it out!

Great information, Len, and fair comment, technology changes so quickly you could easily find yourself 'downgrading' trying to match that mix from a couple of years ago!


Cheers,
Steve

[SteveBaruah]

So, after a lot of playing around with that rhythm guitar, I decided the experimental recording technique I used really didn't work, so I re-recorded it using a line out of the amp to the interface.
It's on my Taxi Page if you care for a listen, its called, 'When The Sun Goes Down (B Version)'


Cheers!