Calling a chorus a chorus

Songwriting, songwriters, etc

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og
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Re: Calling a chorus a chorus

Post by og » Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:18 am

Well, finally got Bjam to play, and I really like your song, Ed. I still can't put labels on the parts. A2 is as close to a chorus as you get, but vorus is very apt. I like the way the theme of rambling is echoed in the easy, rambling style of the lyrics. Matto is probably right about the commercial aspects, but it's still a good song.

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Re: Calling a chorus a chorus

Post by matto » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:26 am

Quote:MattoInteresting.... I've always thought that lyrics and lyrical themes were important for film/TV. Tempo, mood, etc come first but I thought that if the subject matter of the song is way off -or - the song is too specific, mentioning specific names, cities, etc it generally can't be used. Most leads I've responded to, TAXI or otherwise, either asked for specific lyrical themes or specified not to use very specific names and places. TAXI music library leads often express the latter.I made 2 placements last year for my own company. One was for an HBO show about a whorehouse. The wanted sexy, party songs possibly about prostitutes parading themselves in from of clientele to be selected. The song placed was "Shake It" by Courtney Wing ( www.courtneywing.com ) and had the repeating lyric, "Shake it, shake it, shake it..." The other was for a Canadian show, kind of a 90210 about tennis brats (young stuff as in Dawson's or OC). The song placed was called "Perfect Kiss", written by Mark Harding from France. Obviously, the tempo and mood must have fit the backing for a scene. Would we have got that placement without lyrics about something relevant such as a perfect kiss? That song can he heard at: http://broken-heart-research.com/ ...Matto, given your experience and success, I can't disagree with you. But I thought more discussion on this would be good. CaseyHey Casey, you're absolutely right, I should have explained myself better. It is true that the lyrical THEME of a song, what the song is about, can be important, and quite probably this is what Michael was referring to. I would say the lyrical theme is a consideration in perhaps up to 50% of film/tv placements where English lyrics are concerned.What I should have said is the QUALITY of the lyric is not very important. For film/tv, as long as the lyric is decent and makes sense more of less, you're good to go. This is in sharp contrast to artist, or even moreso, song pitches where your lyric will be scrutinized, and if there's just one or two lines that aren't the best they can be, it's a no-go.Your own examples illustrate perfectly what I was trying to get across: For songs with (relatively cliched) titles like "Shake it" or "Perfect Kiss" to be successful as artist or song pitches, those lyrics better be amazing and unique to make up for the generic titles. In fact having those titles could by themselves be reason enough for a pass in Nashville . On the other hand, for film and tv pitches, it can be enough to have "shake it shake it shake it" somewhere in the lyric, or have "something about a perfect kiss" as the lyrical theme. In other words, I would contend that...you could get a song with rather "lame" lyrics into a major tv show or movie, but not one with "lame" music or production. Not to imply in any way that the songs you mention are lyrically "lame", of course.Hope this clarifies things.matto

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Re: Calling a chorus a chorus

Post by Casey H » Sat Jun 17, 2006 5:58 am

Quote:Hey Casey, you're absolutely right, I should have explained myself better. It is true that the lyrical THEME of a song, what the song is about, can be important, and quite probably this is what Michael was referring to. I would say the lyrical theme is a consideration in perhaps up to 50% of film/TV placements where English lyrics are concerned.What I should have said is the QUALITY of the lyric is not very important. For film/TV, as long as the lyric is decent and makes sense more of less, you're good to go. This is in sharp contrast to artist, or even more so, song pitches where your lyric will be scrutinized, and if there's just one or two lines that aren't the best they can be, it's a no-go.Your own examples illustrate perfectly what I was trying to get across: For songs with (relatively cliched) titles like "Shake it" or "Perfect Kiss" to be successful as artist or song pitches, those lyrics better be amazing and unique to make up for the generic titles. In fact having those titles could by themselves be reason enough for a pass in Nashville . On the other hand, for film and TV pitches, it can be enough to have "shake it shake it shake it" somewhere in the lyric, or have "something about a perfect kiss" as the lyrical theme. In other words, I would contend that...you could get a song with rather "lame" lyrics into a major TV show or movie, but not one with "lame" music or production. Not to imply in any way that the songs you mention are lyrically "lame", of course.Hope this clarifies things.mattoAhhhh, Matto.... Yes I think we are saying the same things. One of the reasons I don't do song pitches much (besides having limited material) is the scrutiny every detail gets, especially the lyrics. I think I've joked before that it's like getting a paper back from your High School English teacher.I often tell pure songwriters who write really good, even great songs which are well recorded to set their sights on film/TV placements and not to think too much about name artists cutting their material. I always hear "This song would be perfect for Faith Hill", etc.... Well... Assuming it IS a great song you would have to get past gatekeepers to even have it considered. That may be 1 in thousands. Then maybe the right person would not like the title and throw it away. And then maybe there are one or two lyric lines they don't like and again the circular file... OK, get past that and it gets listened to... It has to totally excite that listener in 30-40 seconds... If it gets past that the artist has to like it... And then it might be put on hold... Some songs get put on hold do get recorded, many don't. Artists may record 20 songs for a 12 song CD, thereby dropping the other 8... So you see how bad the odds are... The odds with film/TV are no picnic, but better. The above may sound negative and I digressed a bit, but I really wanted to encourage people to heavily pursue film/TV, music libraries, etc., be it through TAXI or other avenues. Casey

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Re: Calling a chorus a chorus

Post by edteja » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:10 pm

Hey OG,If you can't hear the tune on Broadjam for whatever reason, pm me and I'll send you an MP3--hell, I'm, such a nice guy I'll send and MP6 if you want.
"In the future, when we finally get over racism, bigotry, and everyone is purple, red, and brown ... then we'll have to hate people for who they truly are."--George Carlin

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