Co-writing and PRO registration

[Mark Crozer]

Hi guys

I'm hoping you can answer a question for me. Paul Otten (Peeyo) and I co-wrote a song together last week. Neither of us have done this before and we're wondering whether we both need to register the song to our respective PROs or if only one of us needs to?

Apologies if this question has been asked and answered before. I searched the forums but couldn't see an answer.

The song in question, should you wish to hear it, is called "I Want, I Want, I Want, I Want More" and can can be found on Paul's page. It was written for the Sean Hayes/Ray La Montagne listing.

Thanks!

Mark

[Kolstad]

To the best of my knowledge (disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer), you both need to register the song. Say just one of you did, still with both writers, just the writer registered will recieve royalties. The other half will be distributed to other copyrights (as they are paid from a collective pool of monies). The pro will not pay two writers shares to one registered writer. You can be led to think that if one is registering the song, you'll still get shares for both writers (implied that the registered one will distribute the fair share to the cowriter), but the system doesn't work like that. This is to protect you. Say you end up enemies in a couple years (those things are never predictable), would you give your enemy the power to administer your money? I think not. So, you both need to register to get your respective shares.

However, there's no need to register the song with your pro untill you have it signed or released, though. A pro registration is NOT to be confused with a copyright. You need to copyright the song asap., but first register the song with your pro, when it's about to be signed or released.

Another good thing to have is a co-writers agreement. Say you disagree with where to pitch the song. You don't need a co-writers consent to sign a non-exclusive agreement (though, dependant on the specific contract), but you do need a co-writers agreement to sign such a deal. I'm not saying this is good practice, though. However, I believe this is legally viable (talk to your lawyer to be absolutely sure). You cannot sign an exclusive deal without co-writer(s) to agree first, though.

[Mark Crozer]

Hi Magne

Thanks for your answer. I figured that we probably both ought to register the song. I always register my songs immediately after they have been recorded to be safe as there is always a possibility they will end up getting publicly played somewhere.

Although, as you say, registering a song is not the same as registering a copyright, it does provide evidence that a title has been created. I've spent a lot of time over the years looking into the whole issue of copyright. It is a tricky area. Legally, a work (be it a song, novel, poem, etc) is copyrighted the moment it exists and it is not necessary to officially copyright your creation. Of course, having an official copyright does give you a little bit more clout if you ever need to dispute a case of breach of copyright in court. But even then, because 'art' and particularly music, is such an ephemeral form, it's not necessarily possible to disprove that two people didn't come up with the same idea independently of each other... I have never officially copyrighted a song in my life as I've previously been lead to believe it's not needed. I think in fact it would be near impossible for me as each registration of copyright costs something like $60-70 which, if you're an independent artist like I am and writing quite a lot of material per year, is unaffordable. It is a tricky area...

Thanks for the input.

Mark

[Mark Crozer]

Just for a little clarification on the issue of Copyright because it is something that I think a lot of artists are unaware of (and I'm quoting here directly from the US Copyright Office's website):

"Copyright protection subsists from the time the work is created in fixed form. The copyright in the work of authorship immediately becomes the property of the author who created the work. Only the author or those deriving their rights through the author can rightfully claim copyright."

and

"The way in which copyright protection is secured is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright."

Just thought it was worth sharing this with anyone interested.

Thanks

Mark

[Casey H]

If you are with the same PRO, only one of you would register it.

I'm pretty sure that if you are with different PRO's, you can each register it. It might not be necessary because cue sheets are sent to all the PROs in a country and therefore it would be picked up by either and they cooperate. From what I know it would be benign though for each of you to register it with your respective PRO.

Hopefully Matto will chime in on this one.

Casey

[Kolstad]

... Although, as you say, registering a song is not the same as registering a copyright, it does provide evidence that a title has been created.

You are right it's a tricky area. The reason a pro registration doesn't prove a copyright, is that it doesn't tie the title to the composition, like it does with a copyright registration. So, you can prove the title (which is NOT copyrightable), but not the composition, which is the bottom line.

Life is definately too short for copyright infringements, though (that's why we let lawyers handle it ).

Remember that you can copyright tracks and songs in bulks (sending in one file with several songs) with the US Copyright Office. That can keep the costs down. You can also register with the (UK based) International Songwriters Guild http://www.songwriters-guild.co.uk/home.htm , and have all songs (regardless of number) copyrighted within the yearly fee of 50£ (their copyright service is free). The UK registration can prove your copyright in court, but you can't use the benefits of the US legal system, so you have to shell out yourself, and then it comes down to which one has the better lawyer (the rich guys always does).

[Mark Crozer]

Thanks Casey. We're with two different PROs (mine is SOCAN.)

Yeah you're right Magne. I hadn't really thought about that element until today. All you're registering is a title which proves nothing! Hmm.... Must give it more thought.

[matto]

If you're both with different PROs, it should (eventually) be registered with both PROs.

The reason I'm using this language is that you may not have to do it yourself if for example you sign the song with a publisher in the future. And the reason I say "eventually" is that it usually takes at least six months from the date of a royalty generating public performance of the song until royalties are paid, so even if you registered the song only after a performance had occured you would still get paid normally.

I rarely register songs until "something is happening" with them, meaning they are in a position where royalties are likely. This way I (or the future publisher) won't have to amend the registration if I decide to sign the title with a publisher.

matto