Co-writing

[matthoggard]

I think co-writing is the greatest thing since man grunted his first melody while beating on a dead animal skin.Most of the greatest songs were the result of co-writes. I think one person, no matter how great he/she is, has a narrowed view on the world. Take 2 talented writers and put them together and the possibilities are endless.Staff writer?? This seems like just another job to me. Sure it would be great but having to write with a quota sounds too much like the job I have now.

[claire]

As much as I'd like a staff deal, that's a day job - and I already have a day job. Plus the pay isn't enough to keep me alive. Plus the typical quota is 12 songs a year if they're solo writes, 24 a year if they're two-writer cowrites, 36 if they're three-writer cowrites. Plus the agreements are written in three year blocks with the publisher having the option to drop you at the end of each year when the contract comes up for renewal. It's not an easy job but if the publisher believes in you and keeps working with you, the opportunities to write that next hit song are better than for someone walking up and down Music Row with a bag full of CDs...

[cameron]

I'd like to say I'll be ready to be a staff writer in a couple of years. I just want to keep getting better and maybe I'll be in a place where I might be able to consider writing full time by then.Cameron

[jay10music]

Why I love cowriting with signed writers in Nashville"1. 10-1 writes = publisher pays for lunch. 2. umm..ok, I really like free lunch.

[suzdoyle]

(chuckling) . . . And let's hope there's Chocolate involved as well!Suz

[mojobone]

As long as it's on the menu....

[mojobone]

Sept 5, 2008, 3:27pm, claire wrote:I'm not good at responding to posts after i've read them, so I'll just say that cowriting can be an amazing experience - especially if you do it in real time and not just via the Internet. When it's a good connection and the chemistry is there, the energy level is amazing and you look at each other afterwards and say "omigod, look what we just did!". Yes, it's very sensual. Cowriting is also like blind dating, though, and if the chemistry isn't there or if it's too much like work or if you piss each other off, it's not worth pursuing that particular cowriter (for me, at least). I've written with a lot of people and now have pretty much narrowed it down to three regulars. I can't deal with writing long distance via emails because nobody is breathing. There are these annoying lags between sending out a "waddya think" and getting back something that bears absolutely no resemblance to what you're thinking, etc. For me it's a pain in the rear.I heard someone once say that writing songs is like getting naked in front of a stranger. If you want the song to be amazing, you can't have any shame or hold anything back. In that sense, cowriting can really be intimidating because you've got to allow yourself to be vulnerable. But ahhh, the end results can be amazing.Nashville is, of course, a town of cowriters. There are very few pro writers who write alone. When you ask a question like why would a staff writer want to write with someone who isn't signed, the answer is often because the unsigned writer brought a phenomenal idea to the staff writer. Bring me an idea. If I'm signed to a publisher I can write with other staff writers but I'll write with you if you bring me a killer idea (not me personally, it's just what gets them interested in you - that and the fact that they listen to your songs and realize you're not some dork who can't put a song together).I had a meeting with a local publisher recently and he asked me what I wanted (from him). I said I wanted him to set me up with some new cowriters, particularly staff writers. He was very honest when he said that it's really hard to get pro writers who are willing to write with folks at my level because writing is their livelihood. They make their living by writing songs. They don't have much free time and if they're going to look for someone new to write with, it's probably going to be another staff writer. Nothing personal, just business. It made sense to me because if I was a house painter looking for someone to help me paint a house, I probably wouldn't go to someone who paints still life oil paintings - I'd look for another experienced house painter. Maybe I've been doing this too long when being rejected starts to make sense to me!The upshot of my meeting was an open door with that publisher and he did set me up with two cowrites with other unsigned writers who are a step or two ahead of me in the holds department.Yes, there are obvious advantages to having two people pitching a song and as far as signing the song to a publisher, I'm of the opinion that 50% (or 25%) of something is worth better than 100% of nothing.Beyond all the logical and business reasons to cowrite, it all comes back to the magic of creating something that is better than it would have been if I'd written it alone. Give it a shot and see what you think ClaireIf that ain't the post of the year, it's at least the post of this quarter.

[mojobone]

Sept 5, 2008, 7:17pm, cameron wrote:Sept 5, 2008, 5:40pm, claire wrote: I've only had the chance once (with Jason Blume) and we actually did really well together. The song turned out to be something I'm proud to pitch, we used my whole first verse and lift lyrics, the chorus lyric was a real collaboration as was the second verse and lift, Jason wrote the bridge and he also did the melody. I didn't feel left out and the chemistry was there. It was a good experience. That would be a great experience. So how does it work? Do you just sit in a room together and say, "well here's something I've been playing around with" and try to build on it, or do you start with a written outline of what kind of song you want to write, and then bounce themes, lyrics, etc. that fit it off each other? I guess every session is probably a bit different, I'm just trying to get a feel for the process.Anyone going on the Texas Songwriter's Cruise in February? I'm signed up and it might be interesting to try cowriting a song with someone there.CameronYeah, it's kinda like makin' babies, it get's done any way it can get done.

[cameron]

Yes, and my songs are my babies. They don't always turn out the way I had hoped, but I love 'em anyway. Claire's post is VERY informative. One thing I take away from it is that you probably have to live in Nashville, at least until you get established.I guess the importance of contacts made through co-writes can't be underestimated either.Cameron

[jkoob]

I have only known song writing as a collaborative effort (other than when I was a teen, but I try not to think about those "songs"). Well, if you look at my avatar you see me and Tom. One day Tom brought me a country western song and asked me if I could put it to music. He knew I played guitar and could sing in key most of the time. So I did--not sing in key--put the lyrics to music. Next week he had another song, and then another, and then another. That's how it all started. But I must say, those times when we write together, although fewer in number (and probably resulting in more laughter than lyrics) are like a cascade of ideas--when one starts with an idea, then gets stuck, the other gets an idea from the other's idea, then gets stuck, then the other gets an idea from the other's idea ... I could continue that for another couple of pages, but I know you have the idea ... unless you got stuck ... . I love collaboration and would not have it any other way."Oh Jeff, please collaborate with me!" Oh, now you see the fun.Wait. Did I just write that line about "collaborating with me"? I am new here. I do not know how this forum works yet. I thought someone else said that. I feel some trouble brewing. Hey, look for me at the rally and say "Gee, Jeff, you really did wear that ridiculous red shirt in your picture."Take care,Jeff