Coldplay & Snow Patrol "deliberately and overtly happy"?!?

[beesea]

Another return - for my instrumental tune "The Last Time", on my taxi page. This is pretty frustrating. Here's the listing:

CONTEMPORARY ALT ROCK INSTRUMENTALS in the general stylistic range of Coldplay, Snow Patrol, OneRepublic, etc., are needed by a the Owner of a very busy NY-based Music Library for corporate videos, ad campaigns, and commercials. This is their first listing with TAXI in 5 years and we're glad to see them back! Chances are, you probably don't have any material in this library yet! They're looking for positive and optimistic instrumentals that have a safe, corporate-friendly Rock sound. Please don't submit anything too intense or aggressive sounding.

Screener #362 says:

Hi Bob,

Thanks so much for submitting this song. Unfortunately, I don't think it quite meets all the perimeters necessary for this search.

From a technical standpoint, this track is great. The sound quality is top notch. The instruments are all played with fortitude. My issue with it is regarding the tone. It doesn't feel deliberately or overtly happy which I think it is necessary for this search.

Try to brighten up the melody a bit. Make it begin less sombre and dark. Add some fun expected twists or changes. Make it a build to a powerful inspiring place.

So, my two big questions:
1) I get that they wanted "optimistic", but does Coldplay have ANYTHING "overtly happy"? Or the other two a-la's for that matter?
2) Did the screener make it to the 1:50 mark? I'd have been OK with them telling me it was "too aggressive" maybe, but how could they have heard this and still suggested I need some "twists and changes"?

Sorry to vent; the returns are getting a little old though. What could/should I have done differently on this one?

[funsongs]

Make it begin less sombre and dark...

Not sure...but, maybe he means something more like:
"make it like you're wearing a sombrero, and dancing around after a few dark beers!! Ole'!!"

What do I know, man?...it's Friday...
fun

[andygabrys]

hey Bob,

I have noticed this kind of idea popping up frequently.

the a la's set instrumentation and basic mix sound, types of guitar parts, synths etc. the listing text "They're looking for positive and optimistic instrumentals that have a safe, corporate-friendly Rock sound" actually gives the tone and vibe that you need.

so its not just coldplay, its the coldplay sound on happy juice that is going to want to make employees joyous about their company etc.

likely the use of a minor tonic in this song kept it going back to the dark side, not happy juice.

I have been on the wrong side of this one a number of times in different listings, and call me crazy, but I think I am finally not far off understanding what they want.

[Casey H]

CONTEMPORARY ALT ROCK INSTRUMENTALS in the general stylistic range of Coldplay, Snow Patrol, OneRepublic, etc., are needed by a the Owner of a very busy NY-based Music Library for corporate videos, ad campaigns, and commercials. This is their first listing with TAXI in 5 years and we're glad to see them back! Chances are, you probably don't have any material in this library yet! They're looking for positive and optimistic instrumentals that have a safe, corporate-friendly Rock sound. Please don't submit anything too intense or aggressive sounding. Your Instrumental track must be at least 2 minutes in length. Broadcast Quality is needed (great home recordings are fine). This company offers both an exclusive AND non-exclusive deal. If you choose to enter into an exclusive deal, they split any licensing fee 50/50 and keep 100% of publishing. You'll retain your writer's share. If you chose a non-exclusive deal, they'll collect 60% of any licensing fee, while you keep 40%. They'll keep publishing, and you'll retain your full writer's share. Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Monday, September 23, 2013. TAXI #S130923RI

Hey Bob
The track definitely has a much slower, sadder vibe than what the listing is asking for.

Yes, at 1:50 it changes in tone. But the way thinks work in this biz is if the listener has to wait to 1:50 to find what they are looking for, it's not gonna happen. In this case, I don't think you have enough of the positive vibe going on for any long enough period of time. Maybe from 2:51 to the end which isn't much.

One suggestion IN GENERAL when you submit a track and the "meat" you want to show off doesn't come in fairly early is to make a short edit version that starts closer to that meaty part. I often do shorter edits to get that effect. I had a forward for THIS listing because I did just that. And even there, the screener commented that it took a bit too long to get to the section that really worked. But he/she felt it was good enough to forward.

Best,
Casey

[beesea]

@fun - thanks for the laugh, & Happy Friday

@Andy - Thank you, that makes sense! In other words, only use the MOOD of the a-la's if there isn't something else in the listing telling you to ALTER the mood, but keep the same SOUND. This was literally the first time I've ever submitted something where I was certain I had not only nailed the a-la's stylistically, but put together a pretty decent sounding mix as well, so my knee-jerk reaction was "I did everything you asked for! How can you not forward this?" Still learning I suppose. Appreciate your insight, that helps a lot!

@Casey - congrats, I'd like to check out your track! I see what you are saying - waiting too long to get to the meat of it and all. One commonality I found in all of the a-la's (did a LOT of listening to prep for this one) was a lot of songs that build slowly, but constantly from start to finish, esp. Coldplay and Snow Patrol. So I was trying to do that. I was actually worried that my change at 1:50 was TOO abrupt, that it needed to build more before switching gears. So THANK YOU for including the bit about your screener's comments; that at least helps me realize a little bit more about what they were looking for in this listing.

Great feedback guys - cheers!

[Casey H]

Hello again Bob
I honesty didn't get a Coldplay or similar vibe from your track, not that I'm an expert there. With the exception of those guitar lick sections, it's maintains the sad vibe. Still, a very nice track and you could probably pitch it for another situation.

I was lucky that I did a collab with Paul Otten where he produced the song for an a la Coldplay vibe. My submission was "How I Feel - Short Instr. (with Paul Otten)" on http://www.taxi.com/caseyh. That's the backing track from the song but I started it around verse 2 (e.g. shortened).

The screener said:

One thing that could help the arrangement is to get to the section that comes in at 1:21 a bit faster. Maybe trim down the opening section a tad. It would be nice to hear a bit more of a melodic build along with the build in the arrangement. I know this was probably a track with vocals before. It doesn't hurt to go back and add something extra to help fill in the hole the melody left. It doesn't need to be as fancy or as busy as the vocal melody was. Just a hook of some sort for the listener to hold onto.

I feel fortunate that we got the forward and now I hope the listing party will actually hear the 2nd half of the track which has more that optimistic thing they are seeking. Listeners, esp. A&R have short attention spans. Truth is, this actually is not a 'happy' track, but when the drums and strings kick in later and there is no vocal, it can be taken as more upbeat. I could have just as easily got a return and ended up kicking myself for not starting the edit even later. Although they did ask for 2 minutes minimum.

It is a bit tricky at times regarding that whole "build" thing. Although listing parties often want to hear that build, in most cases you can't make them wait much more than 30 seconds or so (approx. not Gospel!) to hear it coming. The exception would be if they very specifically ask for a long slow build type of track.

Best,
Casey

[CHuckmott]

FIrst off, real good track, love the production. Yes I pick up more of a sombe r Hans Zimmer kind of vibe then COldplay. I think of a track like Hurts Like Heaven, where the upbeat snappy beat kind of belies the obviously not so happy lyrics. In otherwords, Coldplay/ Snow Patrol more upbeat then their material seems to appear. In general it sounds like in you case, if you don't mind me saying so, the quality is absolutely there, but what you want to possibly get better at is writing to the listing, and the forwards will come, steadily I think.

In the meantime consider submitting this track elsewhere. I wouldn't leave it collecting dust. Just because they feel it doesn't nail the requested ala doesn't mean it's not a good track. Then write six more in that vein and submit those elsewhere also.

Mine was a return. I am writing another as we speak, actually finishing up one that I was going to submit but then got another brief from another library to do something else.

[beesea]

Hello again Bob
I honesty didn't get a Coldplay or similar vibe from your track, not that I'm an expert there. With the exception of those guitar lick sections, it's maintains the sad vibe. Still, a very nice track and you could probably pitch it for another situation.

Hello again Casey! Vibe-wise, I was shooting for something in the ballpark of "If I Lose Myself" by OneRepublic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aFKSBO7F4g but with the guitar and piano melodies closer to Coldplay, like Speed of Sound perhaps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_kGnDcz6xc I guess I've listened to too many sad Coldplay tunes to not automatically get the "sad vibe" when I read their name in a listing. But yeah, not writing my tune off yet for other submissions.

My submission was "How I Feel - Short Instr. (with Paul Otten)" on http://www.taxi.com/caseyh. That's the backing track from the song but I started it around verse 2 (e.g. shortened).
---
It is a bit tricky at times regarding that whole "build" thing. Although listing parties often want to hear that build, in most cases you can't make them wait much more than 30 seconds or so (approx. not Gospel!) to hear it coming.

I remember hearing the "vocal" version of this song at one point and really liking it - good stuff! Thanks for the tip on editing down the instrumental version of a tune. Yeah, a big build around :30 in for a minimum 2 minute tune seems very weird to me and not something I would normally think to do. But it does seem like that's what they wanted in this case, esp. after reading your review. Lesson learned!

FIrst off, real good track, love the production. Yes I pick up more of a sombe r Hans Zimmer kind of vibe then COldplay. I think of a track like Hurts Like Heaven, where the upbeat snappy beat kind of belies the obviously not so happy lyrics. In otherwords, Coldplay/ Snow Patrol more upbeat then their material seems to appear. In general it sounds like in you case, if you don't mind me saying so, the quality is absolutely there, but what you want to possibly get better at is writing to the listing, and the forwards will come, steadily I think.

In the meantime consider submitting this track elsewhere. I wouldn't leave it collecting dust. Just because they feel it doesn't nail the requested ala doesn't mean it's not a good track. Then write six more in that vein and submit those elsewhere also.

Mine was a return. I am writing another as we speak, actually finishing up one that I was going to submit but then got another brief from another library to do something else.

Thanks for your comments Chuck - yeah, in retrospect "Hurts like Heaven" might have been a better reference track to use on this listing than what I was using. Don't really hear that one as "typical" Coldplay, but then I guess they are mixing things up a bit on the last couple albums. Haven't heard any Hans Zimmer that I'm aware of; I'll have to check him out...

Anyway - thanks so much to everyone for spending the time listening & responding! I was pretty grumpy when I got the return; felt like I did everything I could on this one. I counted - this is return number 32 in a row! But I am determined to learn from this one, one way or another. You've all helped me realize ways I can move forward from it, learn & improve. Cheers!

[divinorivera]

CONTEMPORARY ALT ROCK INSTRUMENTALS in the general stylistic range of Coldplay, Snow Patrol, OneRepublic, etc., are needed by a the Owner of a very busy NY-based Music Library for corporate videos, ad campaigns, and commercials. This is their first listing with TAXI in 5 years and we're glad to see them back! Chances are, you probably don't have any material in this library yet! They're looking for positive and optimistic instrumentals that have a safe, corporate-friendly Rock sound. Please don't submit anything too intense or aggressive sounding. Your Instrumental track must be at least 2 minutes in length. Broadcast Quality is needed (great home recordings are fine). This company offers both an exclusive AND non-exclusive deal. If you choose to enter into an exclusive deal, they split any licensing fee 50/50 and keep 100% of publishing. You'll retain your writer's share. If you chose a non-exclusive deal, they'll collect 60% of any licensing fee, while you keep 40%. They'll keep publishing, and you'll retain your full writer's share. Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Monday, September 23, 2013. TAXI #S130923RI

Hey Bob
The track definitely has a much slower, sadder vibe than what the listing is asking for.

Yes, at 1:50 it changes in tone. But the way thinks work in this biz is if the listener has to wait to 1:50 to find what they are looking for, it's not gonna happen. In this case, I don't think you have enough of the positive vibe going on for any long enough period of time. Maybe from 2:51 to the end which isn't much.

One suggestion IN GENERAL when you submit a track and the "meat" you want to show off doesn't come in fairly early is to make a short edit version that starts closer to that meaty part. I often do shorter edits to get that effect. I had a forward for THIS listing because I did just that. And even there, the screener commented that it took a bit too long to get to the section that really worked. But he/she felt it was good enough to forward.

Best,
Casey

Hi all, a newbie here and also frustrated with some returns. Listener#34 commented the meat should come in close to 0:50. Quoting:
"Very nice hook and chorus, and the style of the song is on target and please know that this song was strongly considered for the listing. In terms of song structure, I feel that the first chorus could come in sooner -- closer to 1 minute (or less) into the song -- so the sing-along part of the song comes in a bit sooner. The melody has good sectional contrast and the bridge is compelling. I've noted several books below which may be of interest to you. (FYI, John Braheny's book has an excellent chapter on song structure.) "

I quite agree that some songs build slowly. Song returned quite similar to this is "Simply Believe" at my taxi page.