Confusion...

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squids
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Re: Confusion...

Post by squids » Tue May 13, 2008 1:30 pm

May 13, 2008, 10:31am, 53mph wrote:May 13, 2008, 9:07am, squids wrote:We're musicians, not mind-readers or mood-readers or psychics or fortune tellers. All we can do is try to produce quality work that appears to fit the adjectives they use and then live with the results.Actually, I am a mind reader. I bet I can read your mind over the internet....I bet you are thinking of the word "bullshit".I've tried reading the screeners minds but they wear special lead helmets like Magneto. Bah!!!!!!! !!!!As a huge x-men fan, I feel your pain. Thanks for the smile, even though I can feel the frustration under the humor.

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Re: Confusion...

Post by squids » Tue May 13, 2008 8:36 pm

Ted, I've been thinking about this. It's 2:30 a.m. and I'm still sick and oughta be in bed but this whole thing has been bugging me.......you asking why that one line (the rented tux line)? Why that one when someone else said it was a great line?So here's the thing.......Billg and I did a soul tune together not long ago, right? Bill wrote it initially (and it sounded great! I loved it!) but he wanted a feminine touch to it so I sorta took what he had, spun it around and we submitted it to an Aretha soul listing. Bam, it went through without a hitch. So there's another soul listing again, right? They're using some different names but the listing asks for soul. So I submit it again. Today, I got the critique. The screener was all "this isn't soul!! This isn't anywhere near what we asked for!"Man, I was pretty smoked about it. I almost called them but resisted. Not only was the screener possibly having a bad day (southern speak for being an asshole) but I guess he decided to share his experience with me. For god's sake, the song's on another well known site, in the top 10 on their soul charts and in various states on that site as well, as a soul song. It was certainly considered a soul song when we posted it here, people who know music and have deals complimented us on capturing that feeling so well (good job, bill!) I can totally get that it might not be edgy soul or whatever it is they were looking for (that they didn't state in the listing) but jes say that, for heaven's sake. Jes say, "well, this tune didn't quite reach me, sorry!" rather than yelling that it isn't what it clearly IS and acting all annoyed at the same time. So what can we gather from this? Well, personally, I can gather that if I meet that screener at the Rally, I'll have done enough chanting beforehand that I'll be able to resist taking my critique and inserting it somewhere in his anatomy, thus reversing his rather unfortunate recto-cranial inversion. This resistance would help me rise above my baser instincts and also help me be more aligned with my chi. However, if given enough to drink at the Dot watering station, anything is possible. Squids, in touch with your confusion and frustration.

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Re: Confusion...

Post by tedsingingfox » Wed May 14, 2008 10:02 am

HO, My LORD, Squiddie, did I EVER need that laugh today. Thank you, thank you, thank you.And is that REALLY YOU, now that there is an avatar on your postings? wooHOO!BTW, much to my surprise (and without my even asking), I heard from Robin, TAXI's head screener, and she had talked to the screener who didn't care so much for that one particular line.he mentioned how the tone of the song changed so suddenly and with no warning during the bridge, and how wrong that was.Sorry, but when two teenagers THINK they're in love and get married, that's often exactly how it happens.He also didn't get the last verse, apparently. He said that it went from a potential "pedestal" love song to a "poor, pitiful me" song in the final verse. HUH?That last verse is about the rebirth of hope and the lift that elderly couple brought to my spirit. (It was also the true story that inspired the entire song.)Bottom line, we never know. I personally still believe in the potential of this song, down in my soul. But maybe I should try starting over with something new...No matter. Thanks to all of you for trying to de-fog my vision.Ted
The truest of tears
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-Haiku by TF, 1982

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Re: Confusion...

Post by squids » Wed May 14, 2008 12:30 pm

Yep, that's me at Disneyworld after a visit to the face painting booth. I'm a bu-erfly!

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Re: Confusion...

Post by matto » Wed May 14, 2008 3:15 pm

May 14, 2008, 1:02pm, tedsingingfox wrote:He mentioned how the tone of the song changed so suddenly and with no warning during the bridge, and how wrong that was.Sorry, but when two teenagers THINK they're in love and get married, that's often exactly how it happens.For what it's worth, now that I read the lyric and heard the song, I kind of have to agree with the screener.I mean it all depends what you're trying to do with the song. But if you're interested in pitching it to Nashville, or get it placed in film/tv, you're not going to achieve that without following commercial song form conventions.Your song form of verse-chorus-verse-bridge-verse-chorus-chorus isn't going to work for those types of pitches because the chorus does not repeat frequently enough. The chorus also doesn't stand out enough for me from the verse, musically speaking, and thus doesn't make a strong enough hook. I can't really tell from listening what's the verse, the climb, the chorus, the bridge.I think that's really the main issue I have with this song, musically the song's form is not clear enough...it's too meandering. For commercial potential you need to do a better job "guiding your audience" thru your song, both musically and lyrically.I think that was the screener's problem quoted above...if the theme of the song changed in the bridge, and that bridge came when expected, and was musically distinct from the rest of the song, it would be okay. But the problem is I can't even tell you're in the bridge from listening to the song, it doesn't come where a bridge usually comes in a song, plus you change your theme halfway thru it, not in the beginning.Gotta be honest with you Ted, I would take this one back to the drawing board. I think it needs considerable work.I hope you don't take this the wrong way...you know I'm the first to tell you when I think you've got something great...but I also gotta tell you when I feel that you don't. IMHO only, of course. matto

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Re: Confusion...

Post by tedsingingfox » Thu May 15, 2008 1:05 pm

No, Matt... I think (I HOPE) you know I truly want to hear what you have to say.And I have no doubt I'm having trouble detaching myself from this one because of my personal involvement in that final verse and my own emotional reaction to it.And FWIW, several of the song's structural choices were suggested by my co-writer..."how about if we break the rules and try THIS, just 'cause we've never tried to do that before?"...so I gave 'em a try. Personally, I loved how different this was from so much of my previous songwriting. "Different" does NOT mean that it worked, though. Apparently. And, it may be silly of me, but truthfully... It's tough for me to step back far enough from this one to try reworking it after receiving a 9 on the lyrics from one screener and a 9 on the music from another. I may be fooling myself into settling, but I keep hoping that sooner or later, just the right set of ears will hear it and everything will be Disneyland. Sounds to me like I need to work on my objectivity skills JUST as much as on my songwriting skills. Anybody out there have any pointers on how to do THAT? How are Y'ALL able to turn off the emotional attachment to your tunes (and I'm mostly asking to hear from those of you who DO NOT have the ability to write/record 50+ songs per year...)?No matter what, Matt, I value your taking the time to tell me the truth. I would never expect anything less from you...and I'd call you on it if I thought you were hedging.Thanks, my friend.Ted
The truest of tears
Seem to me to be the ones
Shed in gratitude
-Haiku by TF, 1982

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Re: Confusion...

Post by coachdebra » Thu May 15, 2008 1:41 pm

Quote:Sounds to me like I need to work on my objectivity skills JUST as much as on my songwriting skills.Anybody out there have any pointers on how to do THAT? How are Y'ALL able to turn off the emotional attachment to your tunes (and I'm mostly asking to hear from those of you who DO NOT have the ability to write/record 50+ songs per year...)?Woo Woo alarm -- Just wanted to warn you before I dove into the deep end to answer this question....The ability to be objective about your own creations is difficult, but not impossible. I think the most important thing to look at is what are you believing about yourself and this individual song that has you feeling attached, scared, defensive.... Remember, the thoughts/beliefs cause the feelings, not the other way around. Most often we're only conscious of the feelings and don't realize they were caused by thoughts/beliefs. But the feelings are there to call your attention to your thoughts/beliefs. BTW - for those of you who haven't come to my Build Your Belief class at the Rally -- your beliefs aren't real -- they're just thoughts you've had over and over and over and over and over. (I warned you I would get woo woo....) If you can manage the beliefs that are being triggered by the experience you're having - you can choose your frame of mind and frame of reference when looking at the song. This is a critical success principle, because when you can consciously and intentionally choose your frame of reference and your beliefs, then you can control your experience. And from there, you can begin to create your world as well as your experience of your world. And that's when the magic happens!!!Woo Hoo! (hey, wamu stole it from me!)

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Re: Confusion...

Post by tedsingingfox » Thu May 15, 2008 2:00 pm

[quote author=coachdebra board=complaints thread=7437 post=64938 time=1210898485]Quote:Woo Hoo! (hey, wamu stole it from me!) No... we ALL stole it from Homer Simpson. jAt least I did, anyway. Sorry to say, I have to get outta here. But thanks for the reply, Debra. I'll get back to you tomorrow with a detailed response (as I'm currently in the process of reading Echert (sp?) Tolle's latest book, A New Earth, and he touches on this a LOT...)Ted
The truest of tears
Seem to me to be the ones
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-Haiku by TF, 1982

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Re: Confusion...

Post by squids » Thu May 15, 2008 5:29 pm

Hi Ted,I guess I missed ya but here's what I do about learning objectivity. I don't know if it'll help or even make sense but I'll try my hardest. I recognize that all my songs are gonna be my babies. I carried them around, birthed them, invested a ton of time on them and now they're all ready to fly. That means they can't be my babies anymore, they belong to everyone else now. It's a difficult concept to accept but after mondo returns and now mondo forwards (well, ya know, not like matto's mondo but ya know what they say about the Swiss/german dudes....they all hung with big mondo, lol).....uh, sorry, lost myself for a second there.....anyway, after a ton of returns that I'm still getting, I realize I'm going to be fond of my songs no matter what happens to them but they grew up and are now bashing around the playground with the other songs and taking their hits and doing their thing and if I interfere or get bent about it, the process won't work right. They're supposed to go out there and get bashed around.....they're competing jes like we are. I'll still have a lil bit of an ache if I get a return but to be honest, I didn't join taxi for the critiques and I don't change my tunes because of them and they've all managed to be signed except for two I don't shop. Too much thinking can really hurt the ball team. So I look at the critiques, decide if that screener has an education or not and if he does, I'll look at what he has to say and then consider it for the next song. Or not. That's my job. The song already did its job, showing up at the listing and being listened to. So now I've done my job, the song's done its and we can happily move on to the next thing. Critiques are a bit like report cards with lil notes attached about how our babies are doing out there without our supervision. Sometimes we see all A's. Sometimes a blend of grades and sometimes we get a nasty lil note that says our song should be taken out behind the basketball hoop and shot. I can't tell you in public what I think of screeners like that but feel free to PM me if you'd like to hear it. I bet this didn't help at all. Neva mind!!Boundaries between our songs are jes as important as the boundaries we should have with people.

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Re: Confusion...

Post by tedsingingfox » Fri May 16, 2008 11:43 am

Nah, that DID help. Thanks, hon.Also sorta helps in my realization that I'd be just as wise to let this one go and 'birth' another one as continue to struggle trying to straighten this one out, maybe more so.Tanks again.
The truest of tears
Seem to me to be the ones
Shed in gratitude
-Haiku by TF, 1982

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