copyright - deal or no deal?

[whitemanrhythm]

Looking for thoughts (and warnings) on a deal I'm being offered. Being my first, I'm obviously wary, so please let me know everyone's thoughts.-exclusive right to publish any songs you write for 30 months - what if I write for different artists, and don't want them all treated the same. I also have a potentially huge back catalog of stuff, does it mean everything?-We will co-own the copyrights for any songs published - this is the one that gives me most heartburn - am I losing my baby, for how long, and what does it really mean? Its a small new company, and there's no money upfront, so would an individual/per song deal be better?I'm sure this has been answered a thousand times, but everything I found seems close but not quite. I'd be interested in everyone's take.WMR

[hummingbird]

Oct 19, 2008, 6:47pm, whitemanrhythm wrote:Looking for thoughts (and warnings) on a deal I'm being offered. Being my first, I'm obviously wary, so please let me know everyone's thoughts.-exclusive right to publish any songs you write for 30 months - what if I write for different artists, and don't want them all treated the same. I also have a potentially huge back catalog of stuff, does it mean everything?-We will co-own the copyrights for any songs published - this is the one that gives me most heartburn - am I losing my baby, for how long, and what does it really mean? Its a small new company, and there's no money upfront, so would an individual/per song deal be better?I'm sure this has been answered a thousand times, but everything I found seems close but not quite. I'd be interested in everyone's take.WMRIMHO you need to see an entertainment lawyer and have these clauses explained to you so you can take that information into your next deal. I am not a lawyer, but it sounds like a Staff Writing deal where they have exclusive right to whatever you write from the date of the agreement on, and that they will co-own those songs with you. If it is a Staff Writing deal, then I think they will co-own those songs in perpituity. If there is no money up front, then I don't quite understand... but I assume that they are also giving you details of how and what you will be paid. If you want to write for other artists, I don't think you can, according to these two provisions. That being said... I am not a lawyer, I don't know what the rest of the deal says. My instinct would be to check it out with an entertainment lawyer before making your decision. 30 months is 2.5 years of your work. I would likely hesitate to sign an exclusive like this too.OTOH, congrats on getting an offer - that should give you confidence in your work.

[cameron]

I'm also no lawyer, but I think assigning the copyright is pretty standard for an exclusive songwriting deal. Normally a staff writer would get an advance, but a staff writer would also have a quota for a number of songs they must deliver over a period of time.Also, you might want to see if you have a reversion clause that assigns all the rights back to you if the publisher does not secure a commercial release of the composition(s) within a set period of time.Vikki is right that it wouldn't hurt to have an entertainment lawyer look it over. Jason Blume's book "This Business of Songwriting" is also a very good source of information about contracts, etc.Cam

[whitemanrhythm]

Thanks for the thoughts. Definitely need to dig a little deeper. This is a new company so I am concerned that the deal looks standard, but won't get the same as I would with an established one. I'm leaning towards a song by song deal, but am finding it a hard concept to give up my copyright just to sit in an unknown library.Would this kind of deal affect what I may pitch in TAXI?Some people are never happy, you'd think I'd be ecstatic over being offered a deal, but it feels like I'm giving away more than I'm getting at the moment. Is this usual? and am I being unrealistic?thanksWMR

[rivercitymusic]

I copyright everything before i let it out. I register all titles with ASCAP. You can do a whole group of lyrics (dozens of them) for $35 at the ECO link at ASCAP. So why not protect your product. I have some copyrights with 9 songs and some with as many as 18 songs with melodys captured at one time. I always register the title first so i can guarantee myself it's not going to have to be changed after copyright. Just don't publish it before you copyright it.I have a pulishing company i started years back that handles my childrens books, poems, and a novel for Harlequin and they own half of all i create. Just a safeguard for my children so that daddy never loses his work in a poker game!lolDoc

[mojobone]

Lotsa songwriter books advise writers not to give up their copyrights, but most of those have traditionally been aimed at folks that are writing for the pop market, and even those guys generally give up the publisher's share unless they have enough clout or an in to get their songs cut by artists without an outside publisher. (or unless they're an established artist themselves)Income from library music works a bit differently and there are many ways to slice the pie, but a former staff writer isn't a nobody, over the long haul, the resume credit alone could end up being worth the 2.5 years' output, even if the songs earn very little, cuz one thing leads to another; so educate yourself, hire a competent entertainment biz atty, remind him and yourself that a deal is usually better than no deal, but make sure you ask the right questions; if the guy on the other side of the table answers evasively, follow your gut.An example question might be, "What happens to songs I write during the contract period that aren't accepted?".DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney, but Mom always said I'd make a good one.

[boyatheart]

Definitely get a lawyer to look over it for you. In my experience there is no such thing as a standard contract in any aspect of the music business, despite what people say.From my experience I'd say that every company that offers a contract has it's own little thing in there to see if they can get away with it. Every contract I ever had to look through was offered with the words "Justa standard contract". They all had there own little unique points, which were cleverly slipped in there and I would not have noticed without a music lawyer to point them out.

[kouly]

Definitely on the Lawyer. It sounds a bit one sided from what you describe.

[matto]

This actually belongs in the biz talk section...WMR,I would advise against signing a staff writer deal unless a staff writer salary is being paid.In a staff deal it's normal for the publisher to own your songs (you collect the writer's share from your PRO), but the reason this makes sense is that in turn they pay you a salary.Without any upfront payment I would only agree to a song by song deal, and I would normally want to have a reversion clause in the deal so that the rights to the songs revert back to you after a given time IF the company has not been able to generate placements for you (2-5 years is fair).I think the latter is particularly important since this is a new company without a proven track record.All this being said I'm not an attorney so you take my advice at your own risk, and you should get a qualified entertainment attorney to look over your deal and explain it to you.matto

[tedsingingfox]

Jan 9, 2009, 12:36pm, matto wrote:This actually belongs in the biz talk section... mattoAgreed. It's a legit question and concern on your part, but it don't belong here.Since I ain't no lawyer-type person, I'm not even going to comment on anything else...