Critique on Latin Instrumental Listing Y131227LI

[mobster85]

The screener clicked the circle entitled instrumental performance instead of recording performance. Here is the critique which I do agree with.

The guitar work is the real star of this piece. The rhythms groove well and progression really is interesting.

This recording suffers from a very muddied mix. It seems like part of the problem is heavy over compression on the entire mix making the piece seem devoid of all dynamics.

The other problem seems to be too much of some unwanted frequencies in the low mid range around 200Hz to 800Hz. Too much of these frequencies make the track boomy and tiring to listen to. Those frequencies should be EQ'ed down quite a bit to have a brighter and crisper production.

Song link is below. I am working on doing a better job of mixing and mastering and recording. I bought some new Yamaha HS5 studio monitors and a new AKG C214 microphone. Being able to hear everything has held me back and having a better mic than the Rhode mic I have will help also. I am taking this all in stride and trying to learn. Once again the critique is right but I think what the screener is saying is that the mixing and mastering is not good enough. Let me know what you think and as always I appreciate your feedback.

https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso/heart-of-havana

https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso
www.taxi.com/boblograsso

[andygabrys]

hey Bob,

thanks for the listen on the piece. I like it. I think it could be fantastic with a new mix.

To me, I don't hear much missing that re-tracking the guitars with the AKG is necessarily going to fix.

The things that I would examine:

the comment about lack of dynamics - there are two reasons, one is likely the compression that you used on the master. if you "pinned the needle" its going to make things sound lifeless. A couple db f master compression is enough, 4 db max usually. the Attack time on the compressor is also key. It you make it very short it tends to make things sound dark, and also really cuts off the transients. What some people do with the SSL buss compressor is start with the attack all the way slow (30ms) and then might shorten it up a little if they want the mix to sound a little smoother.

I see looking at my meters that this piece is also limited pretty hot. You could likely back off the limiting a couple dBs and it would likely feel a little snappier.

the other reason that a piece can seem non-dynamic is due to the arrangement. I often will put more parts than needed in a work-in-progress, and making a functional arrangement is usually best achieved for me by muting some parts. I can get a better build that way. I often have to do quite a bit of culling and editing to make sure everything is grooving. If I am i a hurry laying down parts, this is pretty key. Your right side shaker - does it go in and out of time?

I use panning along with arranging to come up with something that feels dynamic. Stuff might start narrow, with a few parts, then as stuff gets added, it occupies the hard L+R for example. Sometimes you need to arrange things to make the mix work. Like a dense part of the song might have rhythm guitars played hard L+R with the L side being a played double of the R side part. That can help the mix sound balanced.

To fit everything in the same stage, you would do well to check out some subtractive eq. The only things that need bottom are the kick drum and the bass generally. You can high pass filter / eq just about everything else, usually at 80 to 100hz. This won't make sound thin, in most cases you won't notice the difference much and it will help give the bass and kick drum space.

There are also a couple of areas between 200-500hz like the screener mentioned, that can be removed from select instruments to make the bottom end fit together like its dovetailed, and can also reduce the mud. Sometimes doing a little on the master can also clear things up. And it also allows a mix to be a little louder with less limiting if you take care to just reduce the bottom and low midrange judiciously.

400hz is usually a ringing roomy tone. 300 hz is usually mud. getting down 200hz and below is usually the fundamental notes of the bass and a lot of the kick punch. Sometimes you might take a couple db out on the bass to let the kick shine through, or vice-versa.

Acoustic guitars do start to sound thin if you high pass them above 100hz, but with a nylon string guitar that is used for rhythm in a dense band mix, you can use this to your favor. It turns the guitar into a percussion instrument if you take it to the extreme. Taking it a little farther than 100 hz can make the strumming come out, and when coupled with the bass line, will give you the chords.

Panning wise - sounds like drums in stereo. congas middle left. rhythm guitar close Left. Lead Center. shaker middle right. I bet you could widen your panning a bit and it would help things feel clearer.

anyways, nice piece, sorry for the essay, hope it helps.

[mobster85]

Andy I must say that's a lot to take in but you are awesome for taking the timeout of your day in your life to help me out. as you know our first experience together on the form was about how I was recording acoustic guitar I have gotten better at it thanks to your suggestions but I obviously I have more to do in a specially in the mixing END. I think these monitors are going to help a lot so I'm going to work on that and re post it and let you hear it in the future thanks for your help man.

Peace,
Bob LoGrasso

[mobster85]

Hey Andy here is a remix with virtually no compression. These new monitors really help because I can hear things more clearly. I was using Bose Companion speakers before bug I can definitely tell a difference. See what you think and let me know. Also what r u using to look at the levels when you listen back to other people's material? You said you could see where the eq's were. Just wondering. Thanks again for your help.

https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso/heart-of-havana-2

https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso
www.taxi.com/boblograsso

[VanderBoegh]

Hey Bob, I remember hearing this piece in Peer-to-Peer during the lead up to the deadline. I liked it then, and I like it now. But yeah, re-working some elements of the mix could really make this shine, and when you do that you'll have a slam-dunk for the next latin listing that comes through the pipeline.

And Andy, my gosh, you are an excellent teacher! I learned a bunch just reading your respone. Thanks for taking so much of your time to supply so many detailed comments to others. You don't know how much that means to us all!!!

~~Matt

[andygabrys]

Hey Andy here is a remix with virtually no compression.

sounds better to me.

These new monitors really help because I can hear things more clearly. I was using Bose Companion speakers before bug I can definitely tell a difference.

Hi fi speakers are usually "hyped" a little on the bass and highs to give a "smiley" eq curve - so sometimes you don't work as hard if the speakers are too flattering.

Also what r u using to look at the levels when you listen back to other people's material? You said you could see where the eq's were.

I can't tell what the "eq" is doing 100% unless I were to rip your tune off soundcloud and bring it into my DAW and put a freq analyzer on it. Logic has several analyzers for example that really help to show where the energy is on a sound. My ideas bout eq aren't based on a measurement on your tune, but they are based on the many other tunes I have mixed on my system, and I know that when things sound a certain way I have a short list of things to check to make it clearer / better / different.

On my interface, I have level meters that show what the level of any sound going through it, and I know from experience if the whole song is in the yellow region, that's limited pretty hot.

anyways, now that things are coming together, the things I would work on:

1) fine tuning eqs. Rhythm guitars still feel like they have a couple of wooly spots. You know the trick to taking out ugly stuff - boost a narrow frequency and sweep the frequency control up and down until you find a really ugly / ringing / feeding back sound, and then turn the boost into a cut of a couple db.
2) pan stuff a little wider, still feels narrow
3) fine tune the level of everything. I still lose the drums for most of the song until you go to the ride about halfway through, and the bass and kick don't really occupy any separate space. So in some ways that's a win cause they sound unified on the bottom, but on the other hand its the sign of mud, and most tunes you are going to hear some carving with eq (and possibly using specific compression techniques like sidechain compressing the bass so it ducks out of the way a couple db every time the kick hits).

A way to get everything in a good relation is to turn on the lead guitar and the drums, and mix their levels relatively similar, so you can hear the lead, but you don't bury the drums. Most tunes work pretty well if you can get the relative brightness of the drums and lead to feel good together, as well as the general ambience - so they sound like they are in the same room like a band.

If this is a drum plugin, you might find that the kit you have chosen never seems to sit well. so just try some different kits. If they are live drums, you are a little more stuck, though you can do a lot with gating and eq to clean stuff up, and in the worst case scenario, augment those sounds with MIDI or replace them entirely.

After that, then you can add the bass and try to get it to relate to the kick drum level. Then start adding the other instruments in.

have at it!

[mobster85]

Okay final mix here guys. I have changed a lot and worked really hard on this. Hope this 1 passes because I don't know where else to go. I worked on the eq's and the drum mix and feel like this one will get forwarded for the right Latin listing. Let me know what u think and as always thanks for ur help and opinions.

https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso/heart-of-havana

Peace.
Bob LoGrasso

https://soundcloud.com/bob-lograsso
www.taxi.com/boblograsso