CUBASE SE 3 or ProToolsLE?

[hummingbird]

I'm wondering if I should buy a different recording system. Right now I am running Tracktion2 and although it works fine for what I am doing in terms of composition, I wonder if it is sophisticated enough for the kind of mastering I need to do for film/tv. In particular, there doesn't seem to be anyway for me to edit imported audio files or figure out what frequencies a particular track is generating, etc. I'e watched a couple of studio engineers work in Cubase and Tracktion doesn't have all those bells & whistles. It looks like I could get Cubase SE3 for less than $200 Canadian.http://kellysmusic.ca/productinfo.asp?s ... 3212933I'm also running EWQLSO Silver XP Pro & EWQLSO Silver. I plan to upgrade to Gold & add Stylus or EZ Drummer in 2008.EDIT: I am PC based, on a custom-built audio computer I just got in February. Windows XP Home; Processor AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4200+; Processor Speed -- 2.2GHz; RAM 2GB PC4200 DDR2 SDRAM (Exp. To 4GB or perhaps 8GB); 80/170/320 GB SATA drives + an external 320 GB drive for back-ups.H.NOTE: The only thing I record is vocals, guitar & the odd thing like... bagpipes. I'm mostly interested in getting my mastering capacity to the best it can be.PS - some retailers sell Cubase SE3 with an M-Box - is it good to get that as well?

[lboogie77]

Well, it sort of depends on what your current system is and how much you want to do. My reply will be sort of biased b/c I am an avid Cubaser!I have never heard of Tracktion, but from what you describe, cubase may be a great investment.As for composition, cubase works great, but again depending on what you are working on, there may be a bit of a learning curve.If I am not mistaken cubase se3 can handle 48 audio tracks and as much midi you may need (64 or 128 midi). It also has a decent score editor and midi editor. You can also export your sequences and songs to midi files and load them up anywhere.As for mixing and mastering, I know Cubase 4 has a great deal of plugins that could get you quality results. Not sure what cubase se 3 has. I used to use cubase se (first version). I did not care for the effects too much. As for using your VST's, Cubase can pretty much handle anything, ie you mentioned ewqlso silver.As for film stuff. You can import quicktime format video files and sync up your midi stuff. I dont know if any of this helps. Overall I think Cubase SE with some good outboard gear (ie compressors, eq,) can yield some good results. Im using C4 right now. It gets the job done.As for Protools LE. Protools has some of the best sounding audio I've ever heard, even the LE versions. LE vs Cubase side by side to discerning ears, you will hear some differences in the audio. Personally like the sound in LE than cubase.Now for composing and midi. I know 1 person who does midi and composing in LE. To me, it is really clumsy. You have to create an audio track, then a midi track, then an auxiliary track and route it back... blah, blah. Cubase you pick your VST, load it and play. But when it comes to mixing and mastering, I think protools has the edge.Hope I have not made an already difficult decision harder. Happy Composing!77

[mazz]

Vikki,Here's another point of view: I know nothing about Cubase and very little about Pro Tools. What I do know is that if you're thinking about getting an M-box anyway, then Pro Tools is a no-brainer. If you get Cubase as well in the deal then I think that's cool too. Having a version of Pro Tools just to transfer sessions back and forth to producers or session players may come in handy at some point and Cubase is known to be a very good sequencing environment. Of course, pretty much any of the top sequencers out there, of which Cubase is considered one, will get the job done once you learn how to use them.One option would be to get an M-box (which comes with Pro Tools LE) and keep using Tracktion for your composing and tracking (since you already know it well) and then move the audio files to Pro Tools for final mixing and mastering. The importing of audio files is pretty painless, I've transferred wav files to Pro Tools studios many times. As long as all of your tracks are bounced so that they all start at the same time it's really just one extra step that you have to do to move the files. Many producers and composers work this way since Pro Tools is still behind the curve for MIDI composing but is pretty much considered standard for audio (although this may be slowly changing).Remember that any step up in software will incur a relatively steep learning curve at first which may slow you down for a time.Good luck!Mazz

[lboogie77]

With your current set up you would be able to run Cubase SE 3 with a breeze. Mazz brings up a good point, You can essentially keep your current sequencer and simply use the M-Box for audio stuff, mixing etc. Setting up audio channels and recording in the M-Box is pretty simple. That way you cut your down time learning something new. I have not seen the SE + Mbox deal. To me that sounds like a great deal. When you do your upgrade to Gold and Ezdrummer, the work flow would be much easier in Cubase than in Protools. Once you get all your midi stuff down. Render the files and import them into Protools. When you are ready to do your live tracking, I would recommend doing it straight into the Mbox rather than rendering and then importing. IMHO audio just sounds better in ProTools than anything else I've heard to date.The basic FX package in the Mbox should yield some good results for mixing. In the future you may want to invest in some mastering software. But from the sound of your stuff, it seems you are on the right track! 77

[billg]

Vikki, I'm also using Tracktion & am getting ready to do exactly what Mazz has described above. I think it's the perfect solution. As far as drums go (others who use both might chime in here) but you may want to check out Addictive Drums before you make your choice to go with Ezdrummer. Both are very similiar in use but from everything I've heard Addictive Drums is bigger "bang for the buck " (it's only about $60-70 more) they also have a VERY scaled down free demo on their website - billg

[jh]

I would buy Cubase You will save tons of hard disk space (and time) in the long run when you don´t have to export/mixdown every track (been there, done that). It just drove me nuts when I had to go back and forth if I decided to change a note or two for example. I think the difference in the sound quality between Cubase and PT LE is very subtle. The quality might be even slightly better in Cubase when you don´t (necessarily) have to export/mixdown those VST tracks. Every mixdown degrades the quality. And when it comes to MIDI editing, there´s nothing better than Cubase ...well, that I know of BUT:My opinion is extremely biased as I´ve used Cubase for about 10 years - JH

[stick]

I find it hard to believe you can't edit an audio file in Traction... I don't know anything about it, as I've been ProTools/Logic guy for many years, but audio editing is sort of the whole point of recording audio in a computer. And as far as mastering, I'm unclear by your post what you're needing to do that you can't with what you have. When I think of "mastering", it's that last little tweak of the overall EQ and compression and then a little peak limiting to bring the average loudness of the track up to "commercial" standards. That said, I think ProTools is a great piece of software, no matter what hardware you're running it on. The sequencing capabilities have come a long way in the last couple revisions, and audio editing and mixing is it's strong suit. The included plug-ins are quite good, and now you can get Structure Free (sampler) and Xpand (all around instruments) for free. And of course, ProTools is pretty ubiquitous in studios, so if you were sending tracks to other studios for mixing and/or mastering you can just send the ProTools session and it's associated audio files and the next place can just open it right up and continue from where you left off. But, again, I'm pretty biased that way... I was running ProTools before they called it ProTools...

[stick]

I just took a quick look at the Mackie site, and see they have a plug-in called Final Mix that does the "mastering" functions I was thinking of.

[billg]

Actually, the Mackie Final Mix mastering software in Tracktion is really pretty good. Also a good multiband compressor in Tracktion as well. I actually bought Tracktion in the first place just for the mastering tools.

[horacejesse]

Bringing up the rear here. What is an M-box?