Cubase users! Panning issues for tracks routed to Groups?

[denalihighway]

Hello everyone,

This one's been eatin at me today. One for the Cubase users. Using using Cubase 6 with Windows 7.

OK so, say I have two rhythm guitar tracks.

- I have Guitar1 panned left, Guitar 2 panned right.
- I want to use a plugin for some effects – the Cubase 6 amp-sim in this case.
- If I use the effect as an insert on both tracks, all is fine. Tracks remain in stereo on the master output.

However if I try to send both tracks to a Group channel, so I can just ride the one fader for both guitars and save CPU etc, I lose the stereo image – both tracks appear mono in the master output.

What’s your best way around this?

Instead of routing the guitar track’s output to the Group track, I have tried instead using a send from the tracks to the group. This kind of works, kind of. However this still seems very messy as there are various permutations involved in riding the send/return fader in the send track and then riding the Group channel fader that mess with the dry/wet settings and pan setting overall, when all I want to do is adjust the volume of the two tracks with the dry/wet setting constant.

In this situation the group channel fader seems to centre the tracks the higher I raise it, so I end up going back to the two individual tracks anyway to find the necessary volume changes…I also tried toggling the “Send Routing Panners follow Channel Panner” button in the Group channel edit screen but doesn’t seem to make a difference.

Sorry I know it’s a basic question. Have looked at manuals etc, doesn’t seem to be a whole lot of info on it.

Would very much appreciate any feedback.

[GavinKMusic]

Hi Gareth,

Do you need stereo for guitar? I would just do mono for both guitars panning them hard left and right. for rhythm I like to offset one like the right guitar... bring it forward off grid slightly. gives rhythm guitar a nice effect on the track. works very well with distortion/crunch rhythm guitar.

like this: https://soundcloud.com/the-element-musi ... ono-tracks

G

[denalihighway]

Hey Gavin

Thanks for that. Yeah I could do that alright and set them up individually etc.

but I want to be able to group those two guitars you're talking about for example, (into a group track in Cubase) and keep their sub-volumes the same and be able to adjust the Group track volume. Very handy at mix time, especially if there's a couple of groups of different stuff involved, otherwise you end up going back and fiddling with the levels balance of the two tracks which you had already been satisfied with.

the problem is when i group them, the panning setting don't come with it, and as I said above the work-arounds / solutions that I've come up with aren't great. Though I know I'm missing something of course

you know what I mean?

[cassmcentee]

Hey Gareth, it means that whatever plugin/VST you have inserted to affect the instruments on the group channel only outputs Mono.
Go to your Group channel Inserts, turn them off one by one till you hear the stereo pan again.
I had to do this just yesterday on a group track...
Then if that Insert is necessary, apply it to the individual tracks, not the group track.
Good Luck

[Len911]

if your goal is to save cpu useage, you can also freeze the two guitar tracks after you use the effect as an nsert for each track and adjust the settings, if later you need to readjust them, just unfreeze tracks, adjust and refreeze.
And don't overlook automation. That allows you to recycle through and tweak all the faders until you get it just the way you want.

[denalihighway]

Thanks Cass - yes its the ampsim that's the MONO problem, and I've applied it to the individual tracks (rather than on the group track), but even if I do this there doesn't seem to be a way of retaining the stereo image if I group the guitar tracks.

All I want to do is is link the channel for sub-mix volume purposes...there must be a way surely? I guess I can work around it by linking the channel faders, I seem to remember someone talking about this.

Thanks Len - the CPU savings is desirable but I'm more interested in being about to control the sub-mix volume of the guitars together.

Thanks

[Len911]

What about not grouping them but rendering them mixed to one audio file? I don't think I've ever used "groups". For one I don't have the ram to keep everything open and cluttered. I would render them and and stick them in a folder named appropriately and minimize the folder. If need be you can always go back to the folder and remix them later.

[denalihighway]

Thats another option Len, thanks for that.

Seems like I just need to go the long way around for mono plugins. I'll post here if I can get some good info on linking faders.

[cassmcentee]

Gareth, what other effects are you running on the Group Channel?
Some reverbs will treat the signal coming in as at center.... (I could be very wrong about this )
Turn everything off that has any effect to the Group Channel...
I know that I have bumped into the same problem more than once wondering what happened to the pan...
Are your guitar tracks Mono?

[denalihighway]

Cass, I appreciate the reply...but it's 11pm my time, so I'm afraid I have officially clocked off the workstation! (although clearly not completely clocked off since I'm skulking email and forums )

I'll have a look 2moro and back to you. I have a feeling it was only the guitars but I shall confirm all ASAP