Definition/Language Barrier...

[rnrmachine]

Hey everyone,

I was thinking about something... I saw "Guitar Driven Rock" and I thought to myself... I wonder what there definition of guitar driven rock is? I checked out the ala's and not even close to mine. It seems terms stay the same, but definitions change... When trying to submit to a listing, I am realizing more and more that I need to "translate" what is being said into understanding their terms... not what I THINK I know. Maybe guitar driven rock has a wider range then I thought it did. Anyway.. I just thought about it and thought I would convey my thoughts on the matter... And see what other people have to say... Maybe we can all help each other understand more "Standard Terms" instead of being stuck with our own versions...

In other words... try and help each other understand the more "Common Language" and lose our "Dialects" (for lack of a better simile)

When a listing asks for a "tree" I'd rather not hand them a "bush" just because I THINK this bush is a tree... or Vice Versa.

Anyone have a firm grasp of "common terms"?

Rob

[mojobone]

In other words... try and help each other understand the more "Common Language" and lose our "Dialects" (for lack of a better simile)

I think that's a pretty good comparison, particularly for artists; we come from a very particular place, sometimes. I swim in seas of esoteric blues and hillbilly music, (some of it's pretty ancient, heh) but there's a wider ocean of more mainstream stuff. Trouble is, definitions do change, and we need to keep at it to stay current.

[jonathanm]

I hear ya, Rob. The "a la's" are what I go by because of that exact problem. Terminology and classification is tricky, but an example is worth quite a bit. If there are multiple "a la's", I'll listen to several cuts from each (on YouTube or Pandora) and try to determine what's common between them and use that as the target.

[Casey H]

Yes, the most important thing to go by is the 'a la' references. There is not absolute agreement on the descriptive terminology itself. Taxi's 'a la' references are a blessing . Elsewhere you often don't get those and do a lot more guess work.

Others would probably agree with me that if your submission doesn't resemble the a la's you have very little chance of a forward. Sometimes the listing will mention that there is latitude with terms like 'open to a wide range' and there you can be a little more off from the 'a la' sound.

Casey

[rnrmachine]

Yea, I guess I allowed myself to let the importance of understanding/following the ala's referenced and got a bit caught up on terms... thnx for the reminder guys!!!

Quite often I read it first, develop an idea and then listen to the reference and get hit sideways... Just like I had to unlearn "live engineering skills" I suppose I have to realize a way to truly understand what is wanted AND figure out how to deliver it, production wise, which is the hard part to me... if it was ALL about the music.. That would be much easier. I have a number of finished songs that I did just for me, but I have yet to see a listing that they would fit under... and that is IF I even understand what genre these songs truly are... HAHA

Not hard to feel overwhelmed doing this stuff eh?

Rob

[Casey H]

There's no question that those of us (like me too) who try to fit existing songs to listings will not have anywhere near the success as people who can create new tracks which are well targeted on demand. I've had a number of forwards and 2 deal offers but the percentage of listings that I can submit to is relatively small.

Music that is very current sounding is always in the most demand. Older rockers (again like me) whose brains were trained on the music of decades gone by, have to either (1) Study current acts and learn to emulate their writing and production styles or (2) Focus on strong, authentic sound-likes from previous eras. Of course, these are not mutually exclusive. What I've learned right here with Taxi and friends is that if your music is readily identifable as sounding authentically like SOMETHING, meaning an era or act, it has a good shot. A weakness in my own catalog is songs being both dated and hard to categorize as to who they sound like. Fixing this.... well, that's on me if I want to be more successful.

Best
Casey

[rnrmachine]

Hey Casey,

I agree, I have some songs that I really like, but I wonder if they would have been fine IF I had stayed playing in a band and pushed them that way. In some ways they are too unique and just wouldn't be wanted on any sort of regular basis... I guess... I suppose the only way to find out for sure is to post them and submit them.

Well, back to practicing, I have a lot of work to get done so I can submit to stuff on a regular basis. I am gonna post a few things shortly in peer to peer for some genre and general help. Currently I am trying to salvage an old song of mine that I had my old drummer come up and record with me. Since it is real drums I want to get it finished in a "Produced" fashion. Which means a lot of work on my part. The main trouble is... I am not sure if I am wasting my time (other then self interests) because nobody would want it.. because it is a bit of it's own style.... well a blend of styles I guess. It's really hard to say, since it is my own song.

The more I learn, the more I realize don't know... and I have been at this for years... the recording/mixing/mastering thing that is. haha

Rob

[t4mh]

The more I learn, the more I realize don't know... and I have been at this for years... the recording/mixing/mastering thing that is.

Me too and I have had to realize that the biggest thing I have to overcome is my own stubborn stupidity...

I have had this same conversation with a variety of members, never with a satisfactory answer or definitions of genres. Definitions change over time, who knew??? Listen to the A Las regardless of the listing title. THAT IS the shortcut because the listing party wants music that sounds like the A Las.

Good Luck!
Keith

[Kolstad]

I hear potato and you hear potato.. yeah, BIG issue of communication, and not easily solved, Rob. The a la's is a good start, but even they suffer from tometo-tomato issues.

Guess best bet is to do something a la the a la's something you know and that you're good at, and then hope for the best. Sometimes you go to the grocery store for bread but returns with a steak, you know.. I think supervisors must be the same..

[eliotpister1]

To add to the point about the importance of a la's, it's also key to listen to SEVERAL songs from each referenced artist if you don't feel like you know their work well enough. I've modelled many a submission after an artist's song and had it turn out that the song I was using as a guide was NOT typical for that artist at all! IE: it was a ballad, and that artist never normally does ballads! I remember an Enrique Iglesias ala, where they were looking for a sound-alike of "Hero", and I found the dance remix of Hero and did a soundalike on that. The reviewer said that my submission didn't hit the referenced song closely enough. I felt like calling into Taxi and saying "But there's a dance version of that song as well!!". But I realized it wasn't worth bitching about, and moved on with my life.

Now I take the referenced artist, I go into ITunes, sort their results by popularity, and listen to the top 3 or 5 songs from them to get a feel for their "average" sound.

Cheers, ELiot.