Digging Deeper on Critique Forms: Song Structure

[hazineju]

Hey all, I'm not writing this post in regards to a particular review but thought this would still be the best section to post this.

I just want a deeper understanding of the critique forms so I can glean even more from them. The category of interest for this post is Song Structure. Understanding this seems like a no-brainer to me: Do you have clear distinctions between verses, pre-choruses, choruses, bridges, etc? Do you follow a commonly accepted formula i.e. V1, Ch, V2, Ch, Bridge, Ch?

But if you do follow a commonly accepted formula, what would keep it from being a 10? How well the transitions flow between sections? How long the intro is? If the chorus (or any section, for that matter) is too long or not clearly defined?

Any other ideas?

[Kazak]

Hi Julia:

Yes, very good thoughts.

What might keep it from being a 10 could be if there is no build to the chorus. Also if it takes too long to get to the chorus. I have heard 45 seconds or less from the intro to get to the chorus.

Another thing that could keep it from being a 10 is the lack of button or definitive endings.

I read once that a song is structured like 3 little songs in one, the verse, the chorus and the bridge. I try to remember this because it helps me make the sections more definitive.

That's my two cents )

[nick.moxsom]

My spin on this is that a good song doesn't have to have all the ingredients in the right order, rather that the mood dictates. Donna Summer's 'Love to Love You, Baby' is not a bad song because it breaks the rules. It's always the case, from my experience, that if you get the vibe right, everyone will happily rip up the rule book.

If you want to do the traditional thing, then the song should read like a story. V1 introduces the subject/hero/feeling etc. and sets the scene, V2 develops the story, but echoes V1 by means of rhyme schemes or use of language, the Bridge is like zooming back from the action to get the bigger picture, an overview of what this thing is all about and where it's going, and V3 resolves and suggests the future. Ha, and I didn't even mention the Chorus! I guess the Chorus is just some banal chant that gets stuck in people's heads (lol). What do I know?

Nick

[Len911]

Donna Summer's "Love to Love You Baby" may not be a bad song, but it would probably be better if people like Susan Boyle could sing it.

Melody, harmony, rhythm, lyrics, and a 10 singing it. If you get the first four right you might not need the 10.

Song forms are probably a good place to start, much like an outline, but you should be free to change forms if the one you are using isn't working with the song you are writing.
As for commonly accepted formula, there isn't just one, if all else fails, you can use the strophic or through-composed form. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there just basically one form that even uses a chorus?
I don't know, I keep searching for rules, but it seems when I find one, there are about 10 exceptions and I wonder then if it's even a rule at all.

[t4mh]

Think about it. 10s are perfect. Thats a really high bar! A real challenge in every dimension! How many things would you change in the room your sitting in while you read this? Each issue knocks the room out of that perfect 10 spot. Apply that principle to your music and see where it takes you! Oh yea, I already said it was a challenge!

Good Luck!

[hazineju]

If you want to do the traditional thing, then the song should read like a story. V1 introduces the subject/hero/feeling etc. and sets the scene, V2 develops the story, but echoes V1 by means of rhyme schemes or use of language, the Bridge is like zooming back from the action to get the bigger picture, an overview of what this thing is all about and where it's going, and V3 resolves and suggests the future. Ha, and I didn't even mention the Chorus! I guess the Chorus is just some banal chant that gets stuck in people's heads (lol). What do I know?

Nick

that is a good point, i hadn't thought about how lyrics also fall into Song Structure.

I agree with you Nick and Len, that you don't have to follow a certain structure and there are plenty of awesome songs out there that don't use a standard form. I do wonder what they would rate Love To You Love Baby for song structure though

Anyway, thanks Alicia, Nick, Len, and Keith for sharing your thoughts!