Do non-fowards make a you a better writer?

[jchitty]

I guess there are pros and cons of not getting a foward. On one hand, you could get discouraged and not write as much because you feel 'what's the use?" On the other hand, adversity might make you a better writer. There are times when I get a non-foward that I can't write for several days. And then there are times when I get a non-foward, and I think I write much better songs....all of a sudden, I want to write constantly and take those feelings of rejection and create songs which are filled with emotion and feeling, songs about the human condition, ones people might identify with. I don't write about rejection as songwriter though, I'll take that rejection and either write an inspirational song about overcoming odds in a general sort of way.Anyone else experience this?

[hummingbird]

Quote:I guess there are pros and cons of not getting a foward. On one hand, you could get discouraged and not write as much because you feel 'what's the use?" On the other hand, adversity might make you a better writer. There are times when I get a non-foward that I can't write for several days. And then there are times when I get a non-foward, and I think I write much better songs....all of a sudden, I want to write constantly and take those feelings of rejection and create songs which are filled with emotion and feeling, songs about the human condition, ones people might identify with. I don't write about rejection as songwriter though, I'll take that rejection and either write an inspirational song about overcoming odds in a general sort of way.Anyone else experience this?I would say, yes they do. Particularly if they come with a critique. I may have to put them away in a drawer for 2 or 3 days, and then read them more objectively. A non-forward just makes me more determined. Just last week, I felt very down because I'd had 3 returns in one day... thought about giving up, who am I kidding... went for a walk, feeling sorry for myself... walked back in, wrote an entire lyric in half an hour. Everyone thinks it is great. That night, I was surprised & pleased to be asked to write the music for a lyric penned by one of the folks I really respect on a songwriting board. I wrote that before I went to bed and sent him a sample. Everyone likes it - including a professional mentor. Not that I want returns... but if you send them to me... you better know I'm gonna come back up swinging

[Casey H]

All rejections with information as to why make you better. The important thing is not to jump to fix every small thing unless you see a common thread in multiple critiques. For example, if 3 professionals says your hook is not strong enough, take that seriously. On the other hand, weed out the smaller things whereby one person comments and nobody else does or one person says something positive while someone else says something negative about the same item.Just yesterday I asked two people (two whose opinion I respect) to listen to a new mix of a song of mine. I didn't like the bridge. I didn't tell them my opinion. Guess what? They both commented on similar problems with the bridge. So, independently, 2 outside parties gave the same feedback on something. That tells me there is something to it. Casey

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote:I guess there are pros and cons of not getting a foward. On one hand, you could get discouraged and not write as much because you feel 'what's the use?" On the other hand, adversity might make you a better writer. There are times when I get a non-foward that I can't write for several days. And then there are times when I get a non-foward, and I think I write much better songs....all of a sudden, I want to write constantly and take those feelings of rejection and create songs which are filled with emotion and feeling, songs about the human condition, ones people might identify with. I don't write about rejection as songwriter though, I'll take that rejection and either write an inspirational song about overcoming odds in a general sort of way.Anyone else experience this?I would say, yes they do. Particularly if they come with a critique. I may have to put them away in a drawer for 2 or 3 days, and then read them more objectively. A non-forward just makes me more determined. Just last week, I felt very down because I'd had 3 returns in one day... thought about giving up, who am I kidding... went for a walk, feeling sorry for myself... walked back in, wrote an entire lyric in half an hour. Everyone thinks it is great. That night, I was surprised & pleased to be asked to write the music for a lyric penned by one of the folks I really respect on a songwriting board. I wrote that before I went to bed and sent him a sample. Everyone likes it - including a professional mentor. Not that I want returns... but if you send them to me... you better know I'm gonna come back up swinging Amen....I'm the same way. A non-foward just makes me more determined. I too might go through a little period of feeling sorry for myself, but then I'm up and writing again....kind of like that silly scene in Gone With the Wind where Scarlett declares, 'they're not going to lick me, I'll never be hungry again.' Okay, that was a bit dramatic, hehe. But sometimes stuff like that works.Congrats on writing that great lyric and getting some kudos, Hummingbird.

[jchitty]

Quote:All rejections with information as to why make you better. The important thing is not to jump to fix every small thing unless you see a common thread in multiple critiques. For example, if 3 professionals says your hook is not strong enough, take that seriously. On the other hand, weed out the smaller things whereby one person comments and nobody else does or one person says something positive while someone else says something negative about the same item.Just yesterday I asked two people (two whose opinion I respect) to listen to a new mix of a song of mine. I didn't like the bridge. I didn't tell them my opinion. Guess what? They both commented on similar problems with the bridge. So, independently, 2 outside parties gave the same feedback on something. That tells me there is something to it. CaseyI would agree in some sense...I know that when I've submitted the same song to different TAXI listings, I almost invariably get the same comments (about the problems with the song) from two or three different screeners. It's hard to see our own flaws sometimes...we can see them in other people's songs but not ours....so critiques are really helpful even when they don't result in fowards.I really feel that I've become a better writer because of TAXI, and I'm starting to get some sense of what the listings want although it is an ongoing process...it might take me quite a while to improve even more.

[Casey H]

Quote: I would agree in some sense...I know that when I've submitted the same song to different TAXI listings, I almost invariably get the same comments (about the problems with the song) from two or three different screeners... "In some sense"? That sounds a bit wishy-washy after you said you've received the same comments from multiple screeners... Casey

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote: I would agree in some sense...I know that when I've submitted the same song to different TAXI listings, I almost invariably get the same comments (about the problems with the song) from two or three different screeners... "In some sense"? That sounds a bit wishy-washy after you said you've received the same comments from multiple screeners... Casey"In some sense" wasn't meant to be a wishy washy comment, I just didn't elaborate further. I would agree with you in most cases if two or three people see something wrong with your song, than you have a problem. But that isn't always the case with other songs. I can think of instances (the song "I Swear) for example where a song was passed on by everyone....lots of A&R reps found the same thing wrong with it, and yet, it wasn't changed, and it became a hit song.

[jchitty]

Quote:Quote:I guess there are pros and cons of not getting a foward. On one hand, you could get discouraged and not write as much because you feel 'what's the use?" On the other hand, adversity might make you a better writer. There are times when I get a non-foward that I can't write for several days. And then there are times when I get a non-foward, and I think I write much better songs....all of a sudden, I want to write constantly and take those feelings of rejection and create songs which are filled with emotion and feeling, songs about the human condition, ones people might identify with. I don't write about rejection as songwriter though, I'll take that rejection and either write an inspirational song about overcoming odds in a general sort of way.Anyone else experience this?It's no surprise and no big deal that there's room for me to improve or that I didn't interpret the listing correctly. Tiger Woods still takes "golf lessons", why shouldn't I be open minded to the legions of individuals with more insight than I?Thanks to Taxi, I had music on network television a good number times in the last few months, yet I got two submitted songs recently returned on a listing for drama cues. One doesn't have anything to do with the other. I wound up submitted "crime" drama music because the listing mentioned dark and moody or something similar. Although the critique didn't say much in the negative beyond "not on target", I can reasonably speculate that they were looking for emotional drama. They didn't specifically say "crime" drama and so I read too much into the listing by making too much of the dark and moody stuff, turning it more into suspense/mystery... should have kept it simple and just done basic emotional drama cues. So, that's how I react. No big deal but I do my best not to make the same mistake again.BTW, early critiques that mostly dealt with my music, not my listing reading skills, pretty much exclusively helped me evolve from "out-of-date" New Age to something that's much more current, much more useful. Having a closed mind would have just resulted in lots of returns and ultimately lots of frustration.DaveI think my biggest problem lies in the fact that my listing interpretation is on target, (that's what the screeners always tell me), but since I'm pitching to someone like Alan Jackson or Kenny Chesney....I don't always have a 'feel' for what those guys REALLY want. I can write a country song but whether that song will appeal to those artists (and the screeners who know what they like to sing) is the hardest part to figure out.

[jeffe]

Some of the things that make you a better writer.Education.Practice.Failure (Though I choose not to use that word).The following is one of my favourite snippets, and It's something I live by when trying to achieve.Good old Thomas Edison and the Light bulb.He was asked by a newspaper "How does it feel to fail 700 times trying to invent a practical filament for an electric light?"He answered "I have not failed, not even once. However, I have proven that 700 different ways won't work. When I eliminate all the other ways that won't work, I will find the way that works."Now that's the kind of positive attitude I like.

[Casey H]

Quote:I don't think non-forwards make you a better writer. I think it is the critique feedback that gets you motivated to be better, go out and research, abandon old songs that won't work, and write new songs.... ArkJackYes, it's not the non-forwards themselves. It's the critique feedback. This is true anytime you pitch to the industry and get any feedback. Most of the time, outside of TAXI, you get no feedback, but occasionally publishers will tell you something about why they didn't sign your song. People take the feedback one of two ways: They work hard to get better -or- they get frustrated and give up. Casey