Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Hang with your friends from the TAXI TV Chat Room and discuss the episodes

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

Post Reply
Len911
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5349
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:13 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Peculiar, MO
Contact:

Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by Len911 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:35 pm

I found it very intriguing, interesting, and only wished there were a few more hours! 8-) Two thumbs up!
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
Not an expert on contemporary music

User avatar
LOCK88
Committed Musician
Committed Musician
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:50 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by LOCK88 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:43 am

Yeah Len, I also thought Jeff was a great guest. And his libraries sound amazing!! His thought process is 2 worlds ahead of mine, so thats always intriguing just to hear what goes through the mind of a super genius....Great guest!
Robb Smith / LOCK-88
Songwriter | Producer
Laguna Beach, Ca
http://www.Lock88Music.com

Len911
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5349
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:13 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Peculiar, MO
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by Len911 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:47 am

Robb, I'm not familiar with his sampler libraries, but to actually have someone that has produced one and speaking about some of the process is super, also with his thoughts later in the broadcast about some of his mixing experiments.

I think everyone probably begins with the expectation of primarily learning and improving their songwriting skills, but if you have to wear all the hats in not only writing songs but producing them as well through the whole process, and the less than perfect tools, often times it takes on a whole new dimension.

Maybe it's just timely, but lately I have begun questioning or reexamining some of the vst sampler instrument library issues. Primarily versus audio loops. When he mentioned crossfading, it immediately caught my attention. Percussive instruments like drums or even piano, if it is used percussively, doesn't seem to experience the difficulty of realism when compared to crossfaded transitions of certain other instruments. Crossfades are necessary within a sampler to transition the velocity layers smoothly to not end up with pops and clicks, but it often affects the performance or context. Audio loops otoh are limited, but might be better at capturing performance in certain applications. The key I suppose is really in the transitions between the notes, and crossfades seem to be dreadful mostly in that regard. Demos of sample libraries generally sound great until you try to recreate popular songs with a certain performance. Though I'm not sure there is much choice when it comes to larger ensembles of sections like strings, horns, or orchestra.

I don't think there was near enough time in only one episode for Dr. Steinman!
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
Not an expert on contemporary music

ShedStudio
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by ShedStudio » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:25 pm

Agreed.
What I enjoyed most about this episode with Jeff was the (largely) non-hyperbolic descriptions of how he approaches building his libraries. Thinking about voicing on the level of the player as best he can, and giving good insights into how producer's using his software could benefit most when utilising the technique of hocking out parts to get the most convincing realism. But as always, good libraries come at a higher price point. Overall, very Informative and a good bit of fun.

Both Orange Tree Samples and Realitone (just to name a few I've dealt with personally) have a similar unassuming outlook in what they do which is nice. Also pleasant companies to deal with for this reason.

User avatar
VanderBoegh
Serious Musician
Serious Musician
Posts: 1789
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:47 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Boise, Idaho
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by VanderBoegh » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:36 pm

I spoke to Jeff at a Road Rally a few years ago, where he had a booth in the main ballroom hallway. His library seemed like a very cool product, and it had great sounds played by phenomenal players.

At the time, money for me was an issue, so I had to pass on his library. And as a trumpet player myself, I thought that I didn't need it because I could always play & record myself. But as the years have gone on, and I've realized the limitations to my room/space in regards to good ambient & natural reverb sound, plus the limitations in my own playing, I've realized that I CAN'T do it all. Plus, there's the whole issue of the endurance of my chops.... Since I'm very sporadic with my playing, my endurance is shot. Which means I only have about 30 minutes of hard-core playing and blasting those high notes before my embrochure just can't hold up any more. My lips just get too worn out.....

So, I'm gonna have a closer look at Jeff's library at this year's Rally. Seems like he offered a Road Rally discount last time I saw him.

~~Matt

ShedStudio
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by ShedStudio » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:35 am

Shoot Jeff an email Matt, I've spoken to him already (very pleasant guy) and I believe he's very receptive to offering Taxi members some cool Perks. But I hear you on the finances thing. It's always tough trying to work out how to divide money in 10 different directions.

FWIW: You hit the nail right on the head with your other observations. I've fully accepted I can't do it all either.

The difficulties of maintaining any heightened performance ability when spending all our time and energy on composing/arranging/refining songs as producers, is near on impossible. We just can't do it all. And that for me is a constant frustration when it comes time to try and pull out those sporadic (as you put it) recorded performances.

For me as an ex pro drummer and competent bass player, it extends way beyond the already starving difficulty of my playing edge alone. Even when I set aside dedicated spaces for live instrument tracking, I always have to spend handfuls of time setting up the room acoustically for the drum/guitar sound I need, tweak tracking/gain/eq settings, constantly reset compressors, adjust mics, retune drums etc... And even then, I often find I get a beautiful take down I'm happy with, only to realise later on in mixdown that I had a second comp active and slamming the room mic (inserted on the desk) that I had been using previously to track vocals/bass, and didn't hear it because my mind was trying to think of 10 different things at the same time! Ahhh, too much!..
And the older I get, the more I'm reminded of these cold hard "mental energy" limitations. So, sooner or later I've had to accept these player limitation realities in lieu of getting enough songs out the door.

Let me recount a recent conversation I had with a music colleague, who was coming purely from an aspiring jazz 'performers' perspective.
He asked what I was up to lately. I started explaining the licensing journey I've been forging, and was describing all of the time challenging roles I face every day from a writing/producing and business perspective. And that getting enough songs out the door quickly is a real challenge.
I could tell he was making the assumption that because I'm a capable multi-instrumentalist, It'd be quick and easy for me to get the bones of songs down without any issues because I can play them live.
I tried explaining calmly that it's rarely that simple when those "live instrument" parts (aside from their own time requirement) are only a few processes in a long line of processes while getting the song written and finished, and to the level it needs to be quality wise. When I mentioned using libraries, he overtly vocalised his distaste of them, and ranted about them not ever being able to sound like a "real player" (hmm yep, heard that a 1000 times before because I used to be one of those young-gun voices). To which I said "your missing the point of what they are really useful for".
I'm a drummer but I simply HAVE to rely on drum and other instrument libraries for many daily things, there is not enough time left in my lifetime to do it all manually myself! Not to mention the massive blisters I got on my bass plucking fingers after only doing a 5 song show recently! Man, they hurt when your off the wagon!...

So, to shorten the point of my story; he simply refused to acknowledge why I wouldn't track my own drums or guitars instead of using "obviously fake" libraries. To which I replied "start doing what I'm doing, and you'll find out yourself one day where your time/energy limits lay! It's not the 1980's any more".
Oh, and I also added; "wait till you raise kids to adults, and go through numerous life altering challenges, then feel free to recount your industry priorities to me. I guarantee they'll be different to what they are today". :lol:

The shear time inability for me to cover all the roles I need, to get a song to where it needs to be, is a hard pill to swallow. But real nonetheless.

So yep, in a nutshell, libraries for me are an absolute 'essential tool'.

ShedStudio
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by ShedStudio » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:53 pm

Len911 wrote:Though I'm not sure there is much choice when it comes to larger ensembles of sections like strings, horns, or orchestra.
To add to your post Len. There's are I believe quite a few "boutique" library designers out there with exceptional sounding libraries for those instruments. Sample Modeling, Berlin Strings, Chris Hein to name a few.
Only caveat is, cost. They all come at a pretty steep cost of course.

~Steve

Len911
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5349
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:13 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Peculiar, MO
Contact:

Re: Dr. Jeff Steinman_ One of the best episodes!

Post by Len911 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:10 am

ShedStudio wrote:
Len911 wrote:Though I'm not sure there is much choice when it comes to larger ensembles of sections like strings, horns, or orchestra.
To add to your post Len. There's are I believe quite a few "boutique" library designers out there with exceptional sounding libraries for those instruments. Sample Modeling, Berlin Strings, Chris Hein to name a few.
Only caveat is, cost. They all come at a pretty steep cost of course.

~Steve
I meant audio loops not being much choice and that you might need to use sampler libraries.
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
Not an expert on contemporary music


Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests