drive me nuts

[sportmac]

Just got a forward, on target, 9s and one 10.

Same song was rejected for another listing two weeks ago, on target, 6, 7's and 8's.

Very similar listings.

It's either a 9 or it's 6,7,8's. it's not both. It's not subjective, it's one or the other. A song is good or not good whether one likes it or not. An "opinion" should not have any bearing on it.

If both reviewers gave it the same numbers and one forwarded it and one didn't then i would say they know what the person is looking for and it was or wasn't a good fit. That's understandable, that's objective.

As is, it's more than odd that this happens too frequently. Same songs get forwarded with high marks and not forwarded with low marks.

All this does is confirm my suspicion that this is nothing but subjective hit n miss.

[stevecollom]

I hear you. That happened to me once too. I was glad about the forward. But it did get a little confused. But since I can't figure it out. I'll keep writing, submit and forget then when I get a check and I cash it and then spend it, then I will be stoked. Haha
steve

[davewalton]

J

All this does is confirm my suspicion that this is nothing but subjective hit n miss.

Well if it were that, Taxi wouldn't get repeat business from the major labels. They can do a lot better than hit or miss. Here's one thing for thought... nobody ever says the screeners were a bunch of hosers when forwarding music... only when returning music. Also consider... the people that *did* get forwarded (like you did on the first one) got forwarded because they (you) deserved the forward. Saying that it's nothing but hit and miss is kind of an unintended slam against the musicians that did get forwarded.

Anyway... it's kind of a forum policy... post the listing, the critique (if there is one) and the track in question. You'd be surprised how many times I've wondered about returns but got some insight I wasn't aware of (or thinking about) after I posted everything for all so see/listen to.

Sorry about the return but congrats on the forward. You got that because you deserved it!

[sportmac]

J

All this does is confirm my suspicion that this is nothing but subjective hit n miss.

Well if it were that, Taxi would get repeat business from the major labels. They can do a lot better than hit or miss. Here's one thing for thought... nobody ever says the screeners were a bunch of hosers when forwarding music... only when returning music. Also consider... the people that *did* get forwarded (like you did on the first one) got forwarded because they (you) deserved the forward. Saying that it's nothing but hit and miss is kind of an unintended slam against the musicians that did get forwarded.

Anyway... it's kind of a forum policy... post the listing, the critique (if there is one) and the track in question. You'd be surprised how many times I've wondered about returns but got some insight I wasn't aware of (or thinking about) after I posted everything for all so see/listen to.

Sorry about the return but congrats on the forward. You got that because you deserved it!

thanks for the Thanks.
I don't see how it's a slam against the musicians. It's a slam against the reviewers. It's subjective. It shouldn't be. It's perfectly understandable that a song doesn't get forwarded because of a "fit". It's not comprehensible that the numbers one receives on the same songs wildly varies.
How can that be? Only one way, we're not submitting to just a listing, we're submitting to one persons opinion of the song, then to the listing. So it all comes down to that one persons opinion, nothing more.
I'm not here to whine or to get someone else's opinion, I'm more interested in the integrity of the process. If a song is all 8s and gets forwarded to one listing and not to another, great, makes perfect sense. But I don't buy that a song can get high marks in one review and mediocre in another and the process isn't subjective.

[mazz]

Of course it's subjective, it's music we're talking about here, not the quality of threads on one companies' screws compared to another where the differences are obvious.

But what takes a lot of the subjectivity out of the process is the experience and ears of the screener and the listing itself. The screeners are bound by the listing, that's what the song is judged against, which is way less subjective than saying "is this a good song?". It might be a good song to your grandmother or the people in the club who are dancing to it, or even the person listening on the radio during their commute, but it may not be the right song for a specific request by a production company or a producer or a label.

I'm sure you're by now thinking I'm full of it and I'm just defending TAXI, but you actually might have some good luck contacting them and further discussing the process with them, you might get some more insight into the integrity of the process, which you purport to be trying to find out. I'm sure my words here aren't going to convince you and no amount of discussion here is going to solve your issue with the process.

And BTW: the tone of your posts do sound a "tiny" bit like whining, but then again, that's my opinion and it's a subjective thing, isn't it?

Good luck in your quest for answers,

Mazz

[sportmac]

Of course it's subjective, it's music we're talking about here, not the quality of threads on one companies' screws compared to another where the differences are obvious.

But what takes a lot of the subjectivity out of the process is the experience and ears of the screener and the listing itself. The screeners are bound by the listing, that's what the song is judged against, which is way less subjective than saying "is this a good song?". It might be a good song to your grandmother or the people in the club who are dancing to it, or even the person listening on the radio during their commute, but it may not be the right song for a specific request by a production company or a producer or a label.

I'm sure you're by now thinking I'm full of it and I'm just defending TAXI, but you actually might have some good luck contacting them and further discussing the process with them, you might get some more insight into the integrity of the process, which you purport to be trying to find out. I'm sure my words here aren't going to convince you and no amount of discussion here is going to solve your issue with the process.

And BTW: the tone of your posts do sound a "tiny" bit like whining, but then again, that's my opinion and it's a subjective thing, isn't it?

Good luck in your quest for answers,

Mazz

Mazz ol' bean, in your rush to defend Taxi you seem to have missed the point. But first I want to thank you for making my point, albeit unintentionally. Well done.

That good song that grandma likes and the kids in the club like and the commuter likes? Apparently it' a good song and, yet, it's not a good song.

Is it 8s or 6s? And why does this rating tie in so conveniently with a pass or fail? If the listing is the key, then the quality of the song should not vary to such a dizzying degree. If it's the listing then the quality of the song is an 8 whether it's a pass or fail, or it's a 6 whether it's a pass or fail. It does not change.

Subjectivity can certainly apply to the listing, it does not apply to the quality of the song. If we're talking about professionals here then they should know that. After all, they are judging it against the listing, no? All that experience and ear talent couldn't possibly rate a good song a mediocre one could they, because, after all, it's whether or not it is a fit with the listing. Unless, of course, the next listing passes it and it magically turns from a mediocre song to a good song.

and BTW, all of your posts sound like you're defending Taxi - but just a "tiny" bit. As for the "full of it" part, well, I'll leave that to your own objective self analysis. I would never presume....

[mazz]

I think the ratings are also based on the listings, hence a song that's a 8 or 9 for one listing can possibly turn out to be a 6 or 7 for a higher bar listing. I don't think there's any empirical standard out there for a "good" song. You and I might listen to the same song and give it different ratings just based on our personal taste, but if we were asked if the song was a good fit for a particular purpose, we now have a basis to remove some of our personal bias in lieu of judging the song on the merits of the listing. The removal of personal bias to a great degree is what makes a screener for TAXI effective and why TAXI is so popular with many clients. It takes practice and experience to develop this skill and the TAXI screeners are pretty extensively trained in the process. I'm not making this up and TAXI will tell you the same thing if you do take advantage of their excellent customer service.

Yes, I do defend TAXI because it works for me. It works for me because I don't automatically think that my music is always perfect and I'm willing to learn and the critiques and peer review have really helped me learn and grow. Is the system perfect? Of course not, it's music we're discussing and a certain amount of subjectivity is always in the mix. But if one is open to learning, the system can work well, it has for me and if I can make it work, anyone can.

I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but TAXI did a video cast yesterday with one of the top screeners, did you avail yourself of that opportunity? If not it may help answer some of your questions.

Cheers!

Mazz

[sportmac]

I think the ratings are also based on the listings, hence a song that's a 8 or 9 for one listing can possibly turn out to be a 6 or 7 for a higher bar listing. I don't think there's any empirical standard out there for a "good" song. You and I might listen to the same song and give it different ratings just based on our personal taste, but if we were asked if the song was a good fit for a particular purpose, we now have a basis to remove some of our personal bias in lieu of judging the song on the merits of the listing. The removal of personal bias to a great degree is what makes a screener for TAXI effective and why TAXI is so popular with many clients. It takes practice and experience to develop this skill and the TAXI screeners are pretty extensively trained in the process. I'm not making this up and TAXI will tell you the same thing if you do take advantage of their excellent customer service.

Yes, I do defend TAXI because it works for me. It works for me because I don't automatically think that my music is always perfect and I'm willing to learn and the critiques and peer review have really helped me learn and grow. Is the system perfect? Of course not, it's music we're discussing and a certain amount of subjectivity is always in the mix. But if one is open to learning, the system can work well, it has for me and if I can make it work, anyone can.

I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but TAXI did a video cast yesterday with one of the top screeners, did you avail yourself of that opportunity? If not it may help answer some of your questions.

Cheers!

Mazz

I see. And what of all those remarks from the screener1 that gives it 6s that says go and change this, modify that, work on it a bit here? Are we to take his word on that? After all, if it's for the listing then how can he presume to make such broad stroke suggestions when in two weeks screener2 for another listing may give it 9s and say great work here, nice job there, I really like this bit over here?
What if I've taken the first screeners words to heart and now the song is changed and the second screener now doesn't like it? What if I've just paid a couple of grand because screener 1 made suggestions and now screener 2 suggests changing what I just changed? Screener 1 give lyrics 6, screener two gives lyrics 9. What if I had listened to screener 1? Who's going to pay for this? Or should I ignore all of them and go with the hit and miss approach and hope that the personal bias you believe only exists in small doses is not brought into play?

It simply will not do. You, of course, see the conundrum, no? Or has success blinded you to critical reasoning?

[davewalton]

Again... if you posted the listing, the critique and the song in question you could get some non-subjective feedback. Short of doing that there's nothing anyone can say since we know nothing about the listing, the critique or the song.

[sportmac]

Perhaps if you posted the listing, the critique and the song in question you could get some non-subjective feedback. Right now there's nothing anyone can say since we know nothing about the listing, the critique or the song.

One song is not the issue. This is a fundamental question of how this works. Reading through these posts over the last few years has shown a pattern that has not been addressed by Taxi. It is not my posting that is in question but a recurring issue and problem that has been posted by many before me. These same questions arise again and again and no clarification from any official Taxi rep that I have seen (Mazz is probably the closest thing to a spokesman but I don't know if it's official or not).

So let's put this as simply as possible.
1. Are ratings and listings tied together? Yes or no.
2. If they are then how could a screener dare to offer expert "advice" on how to "fix" the song when the next screener may like it just fine the way it is for their listing?
3. If the "advice" given is for the listing then why is that not clearly spelled out? "For THIS listing, the words really don't fit that well, but they might in another listing. I would try with some other listings before changing anything, but here's some things to consider that I have noticed... but hey, let's remember, I'm just one person...don't go running off and breaking the bank on what I say... just some observations is all...".