East/West Orchestra Library - user tips/tricks/etc

[fusilierb]

I just upgraded to the new East/West library with the Play engine and have been spending a lot of time getting familiar all the options. I'm finding that the samples are huge and love to bring my system to a crawl. So I'd like to start a thread that deals with optimizing and writing using this library. If anyone has experience with them and would like to share any tips or tricks they have when using them, ie. multiple mic use, controller use, suggestions on realism in a performance and optimizing these huge things to work more easily in a writing workflow (any muti-computer users out there?), I'd love to hear about it.Bryan

[crystallions]

I'll start with sharing some tips of how I work with my string parts as that's where I my strength is... (this will only deal with realism and sound quality - not how to optimize the usage in getting a better work flow considering the amount of memory the library uses etc.) If I am in a hurry writing I tend to use the large string orchestra sound (50 piece str. sec.) but I prefer to separate the parts into vln 1, vln2, vla, cello and bass and give them all different sounds as that makes it much more realistic. I usually pick from the 18 vlns for vln 1, 11 vlns for vln2, 10 vla's for vla, 10 cellos for cello and 9 basses for bass. Often I pick a section sound that I like and double with a solo sound that will be "the section leader" (which will add some definition and bite to the sound). When I need a thick and rich string sound I also add French horn in the mix but keep it very low so it is there for effect but not really noticed. If I am after a more haunting sound I double with choir (symphonic choirs) but once again keep it very low in the mix so that it is only there for effect but barely noticeable. I almost always double the cello/bass in octaves to make "the foundation" of the piece sound fat and rich.When making short staccato notes such as I have in the cello/bass of Gideon's Return (on my web site as well as MySpace) I have layered mart. + pizz + spicc. sounds. (all are found in the folder with short sounds) And on the first beat in each measure I have a bass drum hit that sits pretty low in the mix - but enough to give some extra punch on that beat (+ I have made the velocity stronger on the first beat and weaker on the next three).That's all I can think of for now when It comes to writing for strings...

[mazz]

Excellent stuff Lydia, very creative solutions!!For repeated short string notes to avoid the dreaded "machine gun" effect, I'll often have the strings alternate parts. For instance, if I'm doing a repeated C major triad in the first and second violins, violas and cellos, I'll have the firsts play G and E and the seconds play E and G and I'll have the violas play middle C and lower G and the Cellos play lower G and middle C, all in eight notes. Along with layering the articulations as Lydia mentions should give a nice moving sound that doesn't have to be very loud to give a feel of forward motion without resorting to drums or percussion. Using velocity for rhythmic accents will add variety even though the parts are just repeated eight notes.Also a variation would be to have the firsts, seconds and violas playing as above and have the cellos playing a more arpeggiated part (either up or up and down depending on the harmonic rhythm) and the basses playing pizz softly on one and three.More later! Thanks again Lydia, I'll be using some of those ideas!!Mazz

[mazz]

With Platinum on one computer, you'll have to turn off two of the three mic positions while composing/orchestrating. Because the release trails are sampled in, when you get a lot of stuff happening, the CPU and hard drive will have a hard time keeping up. Since I haven't yet loaded Play on my 64 bit machine yet, I can't speak to any performance increases there but I know that the release trails eat up voices very quickly on the Kontakt version.I do run multiple computers but I'll need more time to describe how that is done in my studio.

[crystallions]

Oct 5, 2008, 9:19pm, mazz wrote:Excellent stuff Lydia, very creative solutions!!For repeated short string notes to avoid the dreaded "machine gun" effect, I'll often have the strings alternate parts. For instance, if I'm doing a repeated C major triad in the first and second violins, violas and cellos, I'll have the firsts play G and E and the seconds play E and G and I'll have the violas play middle C and lower G and the Cellos play lower G and middle C, all in eight notes. Along with layering the articulations as Lydia mentions should give a nice moving sound that doesn't have to be very loud to give a feel of forward motion without resorting to drums or percussion. Using velocity for rhythmic accents will add variety even though the parts are just repeated eight notes.Also a variation would be to have the firsts, seconds and violas playing as above and have the cellos playing a more arpeggiated part (either up or up and down depending on the harmonic rhythm) and the basses playing pizz softly on one and three.More later! Thanks again Lydia, I'll be using some of those ideas!!MazzSome great ideas here. Thanks Mazz! I will definitely try those. (I am especially curious how your second suggestion sounds with the pizz. in the bass. Do you have an example we could listen to?)You mentioned using velocity for rhythmic accents. That is excellent advice. I am learning to play the parts with the velocity that I want as I record them. That way I don't have to put time on that when I mix - it is already done. That saves a lot of time.

[davewalton]

Hopefully I can provide more detailed "tips" later but a couple of quick generic ones...Pay attention to which instruments you're using in relation to where those instruments normally sit. Very simply, doing a three-note chord with violins is very left-leaning... two notes with the violin and the third note going to the cellos gives more balance. I layer and do things that an orchestrator would have a heart attack over. I go for the sound, not by how stupid I would look if the piece were written out for Hans Zimmer ("TOO MANY NOTES!!!"). Start short... create a "realistic" track that's maybe 10 or 20 seconds long. Then when you've done that, work on sustaining that realism with longer pieces. My first piece I did with Gold was this (about 12 seconds long):www.DaveWaltonMusic.com/MyMusic/Tension ... or.mp3Make use of the "specialty" articulations when you can. In the above track, I used the built in trombone crescendo and french horn rips to add a little pizazz. Those articulations are easy... one midi note each and they take care of themselves in terms of the expressivness of the sound. No modwheel monkey business involved.I've always had a hard time having violins carry a melody and still sound realistic. I almost always layer french horns or some woodwinds with the violings if they're going to carry the melody for any significant time.Write your music within the confines of the available articulations. There's lots of stuff that I write but later change because the articulations aren't particularly well suited to whatever I did. I guess anything can be done but it's the time spent to do that. Many times I go with what's quicker to do. Not always though.My last tip... don't get too good. That creats a lot of work for the rest of us when we have to keep up.

[jh]

Reducing release trails ("REL." knob) helps if your ´puter starts to choke.If your hard drive can´t keep up (DFD flashes red), increase the preload buffer size and voice buffer size (OPTIONS --> DFD). (I have them both set to 480KB)If you run out of memory, reduce "preserved voices".Optimizing preserved voices:When you have an instrument selected you can see how many "voices" (next to note symbols) are needed (when the song plays).Then count them all together and set the "preserved voices" accordingly.__________________________EDIT: applies to Kompakt version- JH

[christig]

Lot's of good info here. Thanks everyone for sharing.

[trentoliphant]

My question about using the PLAY version has to do with instances. I was playing around and realized that I could add additional instruments and instead of having them layer (which can be useful - thanks Lydia and Mazz for the tricks) just change the MIDI channel and then I could set a different MIDI track to play that channel. Does anyone know if this is a better use of resources then having a separate instance for each instrument? (In PT I would create a MIDI Track instead of and INSTRUMENT track).Trent

[mazz]

There's lots of good info on the soundsonline.com forum that may answer your questions better as far as CPU usage goes. But yes, in Play you can assign up to I believe 16 MIDI channels to one instance. You could conceivably have one instance for each orchestra section (4 total) which would cover a lot of ground. Then you'd have 4X16 MIDI tracks. You can also assign your parts to different outputs as well. In the upper right hand corner of the Player window, there's a pulldown that allows you to move between different parts. In the lower left hand corner is where you assign the MIDI channels (it defaults to 0 which is Omni, all channels). In the center of the lower part is where you set the output for the active part (the one you're seeing on the screen at that time).Also, I don't think that you can set a global reverb for one instance of Play at this time. Maybe on the orchestra version but I haven't loaded it yet. The reverb sounds great but eats up a lot of CPU. Since the orchestra has the reverb tails programmed in, I'd just turn it off unless you want it on a specific solo instrument or something. If you were to have a reverb on every channel, your computer would be working too hard just to process the reverb let alone all the release trails.I use separate tracks all the time with legato vs short articulations. I'll play a part using the legato patch and then move all the short notes to another MIDI track that is triggering a short articulation. It takes some massaging after that to get the part to sound cohesive but it's worth it because it adds to the realism. In some sequencers you can have notes in one MIDI track assigned to different MIDI channels but the DAW I use, Digital Performer, isn't set up that way.Have fun!!Mazz