EQing a Dozen Voices

[Mark Kaufman]

Hey, new problem. On this new track, "My Little STD", (sorry folks), I have all these backing vocals doing sort of an over-the-top Beach Boys thing. And it's Muddy.There are no effects on the voices and no overall reverb. I put a slightly different EQ setting on each...but they are still muddy, as you can hear:http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_so ... 6549360Any advice on how to more sharply define my one-man choir? It's tricky giving each their own little bit of EQ when there are so many of them...about a dozen tracks of voices.Thanks!

[dgolding]

As well as EQ tweaks, you could try staggering the panning just a tad between each one. It also wouldn't hurt to run each one thru Melodyne or something similar, just to tighten up the pitches.

[mazz]

I don't have a way to listen right now so here's some things I've done in the past:1. As David said, panning each voice to it's own place in the stereo space will help a bit.2. Since you probably recorded the voices with the same mic in the same room, they all probably have the same bump in the low mids which is adding up. You can EQ each one individually or, IMO a better solution:3. Send the voices to a group (or buss or aux or whatever your software calls it) and EQ the voices as a group (also do the panning as in #1). Try a broadband cut centered around 250 Hz or lower to start with. 4. Compress this group. It will give a more cohesive sound and will save CPU because you won't have a compressor on each channel. 5. If you do choose to use reverb, send the reverb from the group and return it to another group with the reverb mix set to 100% wet and fade in the reverb until you hear how much you want (less is more). This also gives you the flexibility of EQ'ing the reverb by putting an EQ after the reverb. Cutting lows and highs on the verb will give a more natural sound.Good luck!Mazz

[ernstinen]

Hey Mark!Man, that's a classic rocker --- great lead vocal!What immediately struck me was that the whole mix is "pumping" with compression. I'd say first, take out the compressor and start working from there. It's hard to know exactly what the tracks sound like when it's being so squashed. Is it possible to post a mix without the compression?If YOU aren't adding the compression on your mix, it's coming from somewhere, maybe your mp3 program etc.But if I'm completely wrong, it's time for me to take a vacation. Oh, yea, I AM taking a vacation in a week --- to MINNESOTA! My family has a cabin on Lake Vermilion way up dere in da nort country, ya sure ya betcha. Gonna floooooat in da booooat, ketch me sum walleyes an' take a sauna. Cripes, I sure need it! Ern

[nickfever]

I'm no expert, but I noticed the "pumping" that Ern said, which was a bit distracting. (and I've overcompressed some of my own tracks.) I would try taking the compressor off too, or try shortening the Release timeThe lyrics are very clever.I grab the phone, she texted me She gave me the 411, I said OMG I gotta LOL at your IUD ‘Cause now IOU for my STD I liked this part. Good luck,Nick

[silvercord]

Hey Mark..great song writing...makes me shudder then sigh;)good advice from above..i hear that pump effect on my monitorstoo...and i think a bit of low-end trimming could be done on yourmain lead..prox. effect kicks in when you get near that mic forthat close-up last liner..cant wait to hear the next mix! here's to ya!

[ragani]

Hi Mark,The points on EQ and panning are all important. I agree. I do a lot of chorus work (with myself and with others in a chorus), and I generally start with one vocal and find the pan where it sounds good, add another vocal and find it's spot, and so on. That way, I can balance the vocals out within the mix. Another idea I wanted to mention is related to the recording techniques-- when I'm doing my own vocals on a chorus in layers, I pay special attention to three things while recording: (1) how close I'm singing to the mic (for chorus parts, I tend to sing further away for less proximal effect, unless I'm looking for a specific "rich" or "darker" chorus, which is rarely the case);(2) where I'm singing in relation to the mic itself (I will sing each pass a little differently placed in relation to the mic- in one I may sing to the left of the mic, in another I may sing to the bottom right of the mic-- all to give a slightly different "feel" to the vocal and reduce phasing, etc.); (3) I will sing the piece a little differently if it really needs to stand out more. I will sometimes change the quality of my voice to make it fit into the mix more, stand out more, etc. What sounds good by itself may not be the right fit for the mix. In some cases, I will keep the slightly -- and I do mean SLIGHTLY-- pitchy vocals, as they will make the chorus a little brighter. (Yeah, some of my stand-alone vox make me laugh, but they are just what the mix needs!) I learned that trick from my husband, whose father was a professional piano tuner and player-- he said that he always tuned pianos a TINY fraction off the "perfect" pitch, because it made everything sound brighter. So that's what I'll often do with vocals, especially when I'm the only one singing multiple passes for a chorus. I think with the suggestions above (especially the panning and EQing), you'll pull the "mud" out of the mix. Great tune, by the way. It's got lots of surfin' feel to it! Raags

[Mark Kaufman]

What a lot of excellent advice! Thanks to all.Gandalf:Oops, I mean David. Panning, yes. They're panned already, but I think that needs to be toyed with. No Melodyne in my house...I'm going to have to wing it 60's style. Mazz:Epiphany time. Thanks! I will learn how to send to a separate buss and try that (it might even address my pop and click issue with those other songs, for all I know). The 250hz tip is going to help, I can feel it in my Spidey-sense. I'll also avidy try out your advice re compression and how to set up a good reverb. Pure gold, thank you.Ern:Thanks for the kind words, and catch your limit! I'm a Crane Lake guy myself...used to have a cabin there when I was a kid. Go easy on the Grain Belt. Okay, compression...I'm still a production neophyte and my knowledge of compression currently includes crossing myself and chanting, but I'm learning. What I had done here was to record without compression, but I compressed the mixdown at 3.5 to 1 with a high make-up gain, using the Cubase SX stock compression program. So, I did mix without...but I probably killed things with my caveman-style of compressing. Time for me to learn more. Thanks again and don't forget your sunblock. Nick:Yes, seems like overcompression is part of my problem. Thanks for the thumbs up on the lyrics. Geoff:I lack a few essentials, one of them being monitors. Dell is not a good monitormaker...nor do my old 80's Sony headphones. Last night I received an old pair of AKG 141 headphones which might help a little more--one producer told me they're like wearing the old Yamaha NS-10s on your head--but obviously I still lack an essential tool for the job. So I'll have to do a lot of reference listening all over the place, especially the car, I guess. That pumping effect is surely due to overcompression. I also lack a proper mic...well, not too bad...but all I own is my old SM-58. So yes...proximity effect, practicing the old live "sing the soft part eating the mic" technique. I'll see what I can roll off on those moments. Thank you! ...And how's the Seoul food?Raags:I really appreciate your detailed advice on multiple voices! And I too understand how a slight off-pitch--very teensy and best if tending toward sharp--can really sparkle up a harmony. I will remember your advice for a long time to come...this won't be the last time I record the wall of Marks. I think my biggest issue with the current mix is that I need to roll off a lot of EQ...there is probably too much of it applied all around.All:Every piece of advice on this thread (and so many others) will stick with me for a long, long time. I truly appreciate the time you took to help! Production is my weakest link, but I'm having a blast learning it, and thanks to people like you, I've been making leaps lately. I'll remix and post by next week...I spend 60-70 hours a week running a pizza shop...sorta gets in the way. You're all the best. -Mark

[ibanez468]

May 17, 2008, 5:34am, lyle wrote:What I had done here was to record without compression, but I compressed the mixdown at 3.5 to 1 with a high make-up gain, using the Cubase SX stock compression program.Mark,Yeah, 3.5 to 1 for compressing the mix might be a bit TOO much.Try a more subtle compression setting, like 1.5 to 1. That'll give you some compression without the "pumping" effect.I-468

[ggalen]

I am really impressed with all the great ideas here. I am taking notes!Mark, cool and clever song! You certainly have talent.