Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Tell Your Friends about Gear that you love

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

User avatar
Razor7Music
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 472
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:05 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Irvine, CA
Contact:

Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Razor7Music » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:54 pm

Hello Group--

Yes, it's that time of year again where every music equipment manufacturer and software company sends you their amazing Thanksgiving sales promos that I want to ignore, but seem to always step too close to the edge of their ads and get pulled into the vortex...

NI is having a 50% Thanksgiving sale and I see they have two acoustic guitar samples on sale for <$50 each.

Strummed Acoustic https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... -acoustic/
Strummed Acoustic 2 https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... coustic-2/

I have never used sampled acoustic guitars before, but feel like it might speed up some of my production time if it sounds right. The price is right, as I've always been pleased with NI samples, features, and configurability.

Q: Here is my question. Are those samples good enough for Taxi submissions? I know some piano and string samples that were played at the RR were not, as indicated by the panel, so I know they are listening for realism.

What are your thoughts?
Last edited by Razor7Music on Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks,

Stephen Davis, Songwriter
For Daily Progress Reports on Twitter: @razor7music
Taxi Member Since November 2012

“If everyone likes you, you're doing something wrong” --Jenna McMahon

User avatar
Unstar
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Unstar » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:00 pm

I use those strummed acoustics and I think they sound pretty good. I don't know if they're "good enough for Taxi" though. I use them to track song ideas and then work with my guitarist friend. Here is a small sample of me noodling. Acoustic strummer (i forget if it's 1 or 2) and RealGuitar doing the lead.

Like I said, I love them to track ideas at 2 AM. Maybe someone who has tried submitting them to Taxi listings can clarify.

https://soundcloud.com/unstarmusic/nood ... ns/s-Qd8EJ
* Vocals / Lryics / Songwriting / Arrangement
* https://www.facebook.com/ClassOf82QC/
"It's the gear, not the ear." ~Beethoven

User avatar
Razor7Music
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 472
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:05 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Irvine, CA
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Razor7Music » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:08 pm

Unstar wrote:I use those strummed acoustics and I think they sound pretty good. I don't know if they're "good enough for Taxi" though. I use them to track song ideas and then work with my guitarist friend. Here is a small sample of me noodling. Acoustic strummer (i forget if it's 1 or 2) and RealGuitar doing the lead.

Like I said, I love them to track ideas at 2 AM. Maybe someone who has tried submitting them to Taxi listings can clarify.

https://soundcloud.com/unstarmusic/nood ... ns/s-Qd8EJ
Thanks! Sometimes folks here will tell you a sample library is good enough for Taxi with some tweaks. If I have to tweak too much, then I'm better off spending that time with the mic placement of my real acoustic and call it a day. Time saving is my goal--if it's going to be good enough for final mixes.
Thanks,

Stephen Davis, Songwriter
For Daily Progress Reports on Twitter: @razor7music
Taxi Member Since November 2012

“If everyone likes you, you're doing something wrong” --Jenna McMahon

User avatar
Unstar
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 114
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:25 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Unstar » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:11 pm

Good point. I didn't do much tweaking on that snippet. I was just learning how to use it. Maybe I added a touch of delay or verb. Probably did a generic "guitar EQ" and that's about it :)
* Vocals / Lryics / Songwriting / Arrangement
* https://www.facebook.com/ClassOf82QC/
"It's the gear, not the ear." ~Beethoven

User avatar
Razor7Music
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 472
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:05 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Irvine, CA
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Razor7Music » Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:20 pm

Unstar wrote:Good point. I didn't do much tweaking on that snippet. I was just learning how to use it. Maybe I added a touch of delay or verb. Probably did a generic "guitar EQ" and that's about it :)
Yeah, those guys on the panel on Saturday were musicians and producers, etc. and they weren't messing around. At one point when a panlist was asked if a previewed track was something he (his company) might use, he basically said something to the effect of, "yeah, as long as it sounds good on my system". It raised my mental bar for what they are looking for--in a good way.

I do know that many, many successful Taxi members use sampled instruments all the time--which is why I thought it was worth asking about these--since they're on sale and I am personally looking for ways to speed up my production while not decreasing my quality.
Thanks,

Stephen Davis, Songwriter
For Daily Progress Reports on Twitter: @razor7music
Taxi Member Since November 2012

“If everyone likes you, you're doing something wrong” --Jenna McMahon

User avatar
Razor7Music
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 472
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:05 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Irvine, CA
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Razor7Music » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:11 pm

Well, I just pulled the trigger and bought it. I watched a demo on YT and thought it had the realism needed for broadcast quality submissions. This doesn't mean I won't track my real acoustic--just nice to have in the old pallet when I need something a little quicker. :-)
Thanks,

Stephen Davis, Songwriter
For Daily Progress Reports on Twitter: @razor7music
Taxi Member Since November 2012

“If everyone likes you, you're doing something wrong” --Jenna McMahon

MBantle
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:12 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by MBantle » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:21 am

I saw an interview with Charlie Puth the other day and if I understand correctly he used the IOS (!) Garageband guitar for an intro and it became part of the final production (obviously with a lot of tweaking), so you can probably get away with almost everything as long as you use it in the right context and you make it sound "legit". I used the Logic Drummer on the last song that was forwarded but it was surrounded by live instruments and therefore not as noticeable I guess :) :)
Cheers,
Matt

Len911
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5348
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:13 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Peculiar, MO
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Len911 » Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:30 am

These are just my personal thoughts, opinions and conclusions. I've spent quite a lot of money on note-by-note sampled instruments, and I've come to the conclusion the only ones that really work are percussive type instruments and samples.
drums, percussive piano, pizzicato... or should I say instruments phrased in a percussive style. I think it might have to do with the adsr envelopes of the notes, noticeable more in legato playing styles, essentially how one note transitions to the next.
That might be a topic for another day,lol! There's a tool, Sonnox Envolution, that works on the attack and sustain of the envelope of a sound, but you'd need to work on one note at a time rather than just one setting for the whole phrase.

It's not that the samples are bad, they are real, though usually not phrased, or fitted together well for a phrase. That's why it wouldn't be all that surprising that a Garage Band sample might work. When you take an already phrased sample, you can edit it usually, not by editing the sound envelopes of the notes,but by pitch shifting the notes, and editing their length or using isolated sections of the phrase.

Companies like Sample Modelling seem to use that logic in their sampled instruments, by combining not only individual notes, but also use phrases, a hybrid approach, with high praise for their realism.

It's maybe more difficult to find phrased samples, or should I say phrases of samples that will work, but far more realistic than multi-sampled instruments that are sampled note-by-note, or chord-by-chord, and the multi-samples are easier when used with midi, to type out the melody and chords, for song ideas.
https://soundcloud.com/huck-sawyer-finn
Not an expert on contemporary music

User avatar
Razor7Music
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 472
Joined: Wed May 19, 2010 2:05 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Irvine, CA
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by Razor7Music » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:20 am

Hey Len

This is the YT video that impressed me with this particular sample library. [url]https://youtu.be/CYmUhrdor6g/url] There's an open d# for chord changes, string squeaks, etc. I think it will take extra time to make a track sound realistic and human, but being a guitarist, I can get it as close as needed--especially since the genre of music I'll being using it with will not leave it too out front for the trained ear's scrutiny.

On percussive sampled instruments like drums, I think they're easier to get away with fewer tweaks to make them sound realstic, but also being a drummer, there are still tweaks that need to be done when fitting it into a mix, i.e, making sure things like the hihat doesn't hit the same time with the cymbal, getting that snare to 'snap' the way you want, etc.

Personally, I wouldn't use as sampled instrument as the featured instrument in any case, but that's just me. I still have that old school traditionalist in me that prefers real over digital. It took me years to finally give in to sampled drums--but practicality and convenience won out!

I'd be interested to hear your feedback after you watch the vid on what you think.

Cheers!
Thanks,

Stephen Davis, Songwriter
For Daily Progress Reports on Twitter: @razor7music
Taxi Member Since November 2012

“If everyone likes you, you're doing something wrong” --Jenna McMahon

MBantle
Impressive
Impressive
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:12 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Ever Use Sampled Acoustic Guitars?

Post by MBantle » Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:55 am

I think the extent of VIs used in a track is often driven by how many instruments we master ourselves :) Let's say there is a 1k direct to music supervisor opportunity for a song that should sound like a live performance and you decide to compose something from scratch so that it really 'matches' the reference, well, unless you are a really good drummer, keyboard player, vocalist etc. yourself you need to compromise unless you want to deliberately break the bank :) Just my five cents.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests