Feedback on EPIC HIP-HOP/ORCHESTRAL INSTRUMENTAL CUES

[davidagates]

Hi guys,

Looking for feedback (I know there's barely any time, but I'm hoping someone can sort me out) on this Epic Hip Hop Cue.

The listing is https://www.taxi.com/listings/S250202YY and the references are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyCqRQPju_8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RPJ1DxxI3Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K5DUpEGp-I

My track link is:
https://s.disco.ac/yqzhamwyjzdp

I'm not too sure about this one, thought I'd go out of my comfort zone a bit. Not too sure if it's good or crap, but it's one of those can't see the wood for the trees situations, so some objective feedback would be much appreciated.

Thank you, as ever,

Dave

[telefunkin]

Hi, not my strongest genre but I'll offer some thoughts.
I like the sound of this, so great job there. The first couple of refs are quite sparse with almost dramedy strings but you've gone for the last ref which is more trailer-esque, so I hope that ref is in scope (can't judge from the listing because your link points to the full listings page, not the specific one - might as well just copy/paste the listing so readers don't need to go hunting ).

IMHO you've got the makings of a strong submission but it would benefit from some re-arranging. The intro is too long and not needed. I'd start at 46s or maybe 39s. Then I think the last section from 1:42s gets too big too early, so maybe hold back some elements (eg vocalisations) to offer more editing options and also a more climactic ending. If rearranging in that way leaves you short on length you might stretch the breakdown section, possibly using some of the quiet part from 31s-40s.

Good luck for a 'forward' with this one .

[AlonMarcus]

Hi Dave,

I'm totally sure this is on the good side of the equation!
IMHO, you could trim the opening a bit and still stay within the needed timing for this cue.
Also, maybe consider adding a bit more variety in the final section—the climax—perhaps with an additional orchestral epic element to enhance the impact.

[RealPickle]

Hi Dave,

Agree with others that the intro is quite a bit too long. I also think you don't need the outro. It doesn't really have the button/stinger ending that they would likely want.

As far as arrangement I don't think you need to change much, except if you take out parts of the intro/outro you may end up short on timing, but I think some of the bigger, more driving sections could easily be expanded.

I think you need to work on the hip hop part of this. Right now this comes across to me as more general cinematic/orchestral/trailer. Part of that is the drums are not present enough in the mix, and part of it is the beat doesn't sound like hip hop most of the time. At 1:15 your hihat somewhat resembles trap but nothing else about this does. (Also Trap tends to be 140-160 bpm and yours is sitting about 120) Your build is cool but all the crash cymbal crashes take away from anything resembling hip hop. Again, it's a cool cinematic track but it needs to lean much more towards the hip hop direction imo.

Hope that helps!

[davidagates]

Hi guys,

Was taking a nap when I got the feedback, but I spent the last couple of hours gutting the track and ammending it as per your very helpful advise. I'm now much, much, happier with it, though I'll probably submit both (why the hell not).

I found, following your advise, a big issue was I was trying to cram the genre into my genre of safety. I scrapped that, and actually found flattening the tracks to wav and then editing them like I would if I was actually using samples worked a lot better!

It's more understated now, though I think that's closer to the sample tracks, I think "Epic" is a bit odd given how muted most of the examples are, anywho, here's the amended track, hopefully you'll like it. If not, well, it's too late now, haha.

https://s.disco.ac/pfwozkxvyjxk

Thanks again,

Dave

[RealPickle]

Hey Dave,

This is much much better! It's got a lot more of the vibes of the references. I figure you've probably already submitted it by now, so good luck with it!

[MaryFischer]

Hi Dave,
I know the deadline has passed, but I just wanted to share something that I was told by a professional cellist, Dave Eggar, who was in my studio tracking last week. It was regarding panning strings. I was already doing this, but I was curious and asked how he likes strings panned in a mix. He had said keep them between 10:00 and 2:00 (on a stage) in the panning and they should sit where you would see the players sit on stage. In the intro, which I know some had said was too long, I was hearing the high string sound in my right ear fairly prominently - like it was panned all the way to the right, so it appeared louder, but it also didn't feel right, like it should have been over more like 33 to 40 L and then that way it blankets over more of the mix. I hope that helps! Good luck with your submission!!

[davidagates]

Hi Dave,
I know the deadline has passed, but I just wanted to share something that I was told by a professional cellist, Dave Eggar, who was in my studio tracking last week. It was regarding panning strings. I was already doing this, but I was curious and asked how he likes strings panned in a mix. He had said keep them between 10:00 and 2:00 (on a stage) in the panning and they should sit where you would see the players sit on stage. In the intro, which I know some had said was too long, I was hearing the high string sound in my right ear fairly prominently - like it was panned all the way to the right, so it appeared louder, but it also didn't feel right, like it should have been over more like 33 to 40 L and then that way it blankets over more of the mix. I hope that helps! Good luck with your submission!!

Hi mate, none of the strings were panned that far over, the intro's gone now anywho, generally speaking I'd pan about the same ratio. Sometimes I'll do it to the other side because it's not orchestral music per se, so it's what sounds better in the mix. I interestingly asked the same question as I have an orchestra layout chart on my desk for reference (photo included), but noticed a lot of trailer cues didn't follow it. The general concensus was "whatever sounds right". You may be right though, perhaps it just sounds further over than it is, in which case I'll reign it in next time.

[davidagates]

Hey Dave,

This is much much better! It's got a lot more of the vibes of the references. I figure you've probably already submitted it by now, so good luck with it!

Thanks man, you were absolutely right. Listened to it again a couple of days later and I'm much happier with the second version, which you mostly inspired, so thank you for that!