Following up with Companies

[mazz]

Mazz,

Well then I took something things personally that I should not have. The same thing I am talking about here with everyone else.

To be specific: when you talked about stepping away from the composer-centric viewpoint and not viewing your music as "precious"... I think I have heard that before from you in replies to me so it sounded like you were saying because of my comments that must be what I think.

Maybe you are right on with that. I do indeed view my work as precious. As do a lot of other people I am sure.

So that I took as a personal jab.

I understand your viewpoint on this side topic and want to let that part go but also think that is a big part of the art I create so I continue to hold on that mentality. As you have also mentioned Taxi is not for everyone and I am still figuring out if this is where I belong. I know there is a place for me but this just may not be it.

Mike,

I don't expect that anyone would water down their art in service of commerce and yet from my experience and from every successful composer I've come across so far, it seems that the common theme is that at some point that emotional attachment needs to be released in order to make further progress. Of course, everyone defines "progress" differently just as everyone defines "success" differently.

In my opinion, being too precious about the music is what holds people back, but that's just my opinion. I was having dinner with some folks the other night, all of whom are composers who are having success and are at various stages of the path. We were talking about John Brahaney, and one composer mentioned that they had a private session with John several years ago when this composer was starting out, and he told him to stop being so precious about the music and they said that was some of the best advice ever and it made a huge difference in this composers success up to this point.

Of course, all of these composers are composing production music, where writing hundreds of pieces over several years is a normal output, and in order to create that amount of output, one needs to be able to see the pieces as a product and not as a precious little jewel, even though it just might be that! In order to sell it and move on, it's necessary to develop that attitude. It may sound cold to someone who isn't trying to do that line of work, but these composers are no less artists in their own right, they just don't have time to dwell on it, they are too busy writing.

I'm sorry you took my comments personally, they were certainly not meant to be personal. You may not want to pursue the same composing path that I have chosen and I fully respect that and wish you the best in all your musical endeavors. Here's to many more lively discussions on this and other topics!

Even still Respectfully Yours

Mazz

[cardell]

@Mike and Di.

I can feel fairly confident, regardless of the quality of your music, I, for one, will most likely never refer you to one of the publishers with whom I have an ongoing relationship. Both of you, IMO, have demonstrated that my relationship with my publisher would be at risk.

Making this comment in an open forum is bordering on slander.

I'll explain why: Is your position here based solely on things you've read in this thread, or have you made these judgments about Mike & DI from other dealings with them. I can't tell right now.

I've had great professional experiences with both of these people. Therefore, I don't share your view.

To me, this kind of comment (from you) is worse than a person calling someone at an inconvenient time!

Stuart

[Casey H]

Mike
My only point was how much I disagreed with what you said--- that the A&R guy/gal who gets called at 7AM on a Sunday by an over-anxious wannabee is at all to blame because his/her number is publcly available. I found that logic hard to agree with.

My post had nothing to do with whether or not people should follow up with companies or anything personal towards you. You said something. I strongly disagreed. Sorry this thread has taken the direction it did.

We'd all do best to move on and focus on the music. Without great music, none of this matters anyway.

Best,
Casey

[keithl]

One thing that I think we need to focus on. Composers should think of themselves as a business. If H&R Block called me on a Sunday at 7:30 to verify that I received their literature in the mail, I would most likely never use them.

Even if there is contact info on the company's site..if a composer's first introduction is a Sunday morning phone call at 7:30 am, that is probably strike 1,2 and 3 for that composer.
These company's have tons of writers that they can call on. Why shoot yourself in the foot by doing something like that?

I view it as, if your stuff is good, you will get the forward...and you will get the deal.

[Salty]

I actually think there are a lot of folks on here who agree with some of the points MikeyMike made and were sorta scared to voice a dissenting opinion.

I totally understand Michael's point of view that it puts a relationship in jeopardy and undermines Taxi- but i kind of wish, that he just made a statement that it shouldn't be done and that the person who did it was being a weenie (I think a 7:30 AM phone call from him to the party is more than fair), and would be grounds for removal from Taxi- as my understanding of what happened a while back with someone contacting a company behind taxi's back if I remember correctly. (maybe a couple years ago there was an email bout it)
I'm saying this because out of how many members, it is not a common occurence, albeit clearly more than this one time.

The fact is that both Mike and DI weren't the culprits and neither hinted that they would consider breaking the rules of trust.
Think some are overreacting to what they were saying rather than debate their points.

BTW- Mazz I enjoy reading your discussion points on music- and am glad to see you have already addressed my arguement with specifying production music.

[crs7string]

@Mike and Di.

I can feel fairly confident, regardless of the quality of your music, I, for one, will most likely never refer you to one of the publishers with whom I have an ongoing relationship. Both of you, IMO, have demonstrated that my relationship with my publisher would be at risk.

Making this comment in an open forum is bordering on slander.

I'll explain why: Is your position here based solely on things you've read in this thread, or have you made these judgments about Mike & DI from other dealings with them. I can't tell right now.

I've had great professional experiences with both of these people. Therefore, I don't share your view.

To me, this kind of comment (from you) is worse than a person calling someone at an inconvenient time!

Stuart

Stuart, (and Mike)

Would both of you please go back and read the rest of my post instead of cherry picking one quote and running with it.

I went on to say that if I was referred by another composer to one of their publisher relationships and called him at home on at 7:30 on a Sunday morning, by that action, I would put the referring party's relationship with that publisher at risk.

Both DI and Mike do not see why calling that publisher early Sunday is NOT a good strategy. And went on say that it is the publisher's fault that his phone number was readily available.

There lies the risk.

If someone can explain to me why I would refer someone to one of my publishers and in the course of their efforts to work with that publisher possibly put my relationship at risk, I will humbly and graciously apologize to Mike and DI (and any one else).

But please don't take one line of my post out of context of the enire post and accuse me of slander. That is not in the spirit of debate or agreeing to disagree.

Chuck

[mikeymike2000]

Hi Chuck,

There are obviously many different personalities here all with different viewpoints.

Since you brought my name up though, I have to interject here to make it clear to you and everyone that you are putting words on my screen that I never said. Nowhere did I say it is a good idea to call someone at 7:00am on any day. Nowhere did I say this was a good strategy.

I did say that I too would be pissed off if someone did that to me. I also said that I respect the terms of the Taxi program.

You are misguided in your comment and your assumption of “risk”, Chuck.

So speaking only for myself here in response to you, please do not incorrectly quote me or twist my words in a way that justifies your over reaction to those words. For you to say that I don’t see a problem with this proves you missed the entire point from the start. Perhaps you should re-read my comments before you go take an idea that is not there and run with it.

Shall we keep going or shall we make music?

[crs7string]

Mike,

I believe you did say that the publisher was at fault for having his number available.

This has been quoted in several other posts and is what I am referring to in my post(s)

If I knew in advance that a composer that I told about a Taxi forward I had gotten or a new library that I have signed with would pick up the phone and call the owner based on the information I shared and would potentially put my relationship at risk, I would, most likely be careful with that information.

That is what I have trying to point out since joining this discussion.

A referral is the best way to start a relationship, but most people their will not put their own relationship at risk by making a referral.

Referrals are not the only way to start developing a relationship , IMO, it is the best approach.

As I said earlier, why would one choose to make a hard business even harder by not following proper protocol. TAXI's rule is clearly spelled out .

Mine is too, I would not refer a composer who would potentially would put my relationship at risk.

In the last year I have referred six or more composers to libraries with whom they have signed publishing deals and in some cases have already gotten placements. Will they refer me when it is appropriate, probably so. (in fact, I'm in the process of being referred by two composers as we speak)

As we get to know each other better, we may eventually develop this sort of mutually beneficial relationship. It does make doing business easier.

Chuck

[Russell Landwehr]

Heya folks.

I felt moved to chime in on this subject and this posting looked like a good jumping off point.

I went on to say that if I was referred by another composer to one of their publisher relationships and called him at home on at 7:30 on a Sunday morning, by that action, I would put the referring party's relationship with that publisher at risk.

I think in your posts, you are using a comparison to put the dastardly phone call in perspective. That you are comparing your referral of a fellow composer, to what TAXI does by forwarding our stuff the listing parties (which is a referral also.) I think this analogy is a fair one. If you were to refer someone to a contact, and that someone subsequently handled themselves in a less than professional manner, then it would reflect on you and put your standing with your contact in jeopardy. ( i see that while typing this, Chuck addressed this.)

Certainly on the surface, the 730 call looks pretty bad. And if the caller was aware he was calling the guy at home on Sunday morning at 730, then the caller committed a serious breech of etiquette. The caller probably has other issues as well that I would politely call "socially challenged." (I wasn't quite so polite in my earlier post last year)

Both DI and Mike do not see why calling that publisher early Sunday is NOT a good strategy. And went on say that it is the publisher's fault that his phone number was readily available.

This prompted me to read DI's and Mike's posts again. I am not coming away with this impression. I don't see that they advocate lapses in etiquette of this type. From what I saw in their posts, they agree that the 730 call was not the right thing to do. ( see that while I was typing this, Mike spoke to this)

My impression of those posts were that they were speaking to the general no-contact guidelines of TAXI. I saw them contrasting this to the generally accepted way of business where persistence pays off. (polite and professional persistence that is) And I also saw Mike in particular notice that this no-contact mindset is generally the way things are in this business.

But then I think of why TAXI could have this no-contact guideline and it leads me to this thought: If we were to refer a fellow composer, we probably would already have a relationship with them on more than one level. We know how they deport themselves. We know they carry themselves in a professional manner and would not call the publisher at 730 on a sunday morning. TAXI, on the other hand, when forwarding material is considering ONLY the merits of the music they forward. So TAXI's referral is "blind" in that they -for the most part- don't know the Professionality of the people they are sending on. Hence the no-contact guideline. However, when I think of it, it is sorta like the lock on your back door. It only keeps honest people honest.

But since TAXI is "referring" people blind, this kind of thing is just going to happen. The bad comes with the good. You can't have one without the other. Except for a very few mentally disturbed individuals, people realize this. And everyone who knows this also experiences moments when they forget, and shout in anger at a universe that would dare cause discomfort... Then their commercial break is over and they return to their regularly scheduled program.

I also look at this from the stand point of responsibility. Instead of blame, I would assign responsibility. In every interaction between people, there is a level of responsibility for what transpires before, during and after each interaction. And in EVERY contact between humans, all parties have responsibility.


Regards,
Russell

[mikeymike2000]

hey Chuck,

I see your point I really do but I am not convinced you see mine. I would expect you to be careful with all contact information as I am the same way. This new quote you bring up is something that I did say and would say again and again for the following reason:

As a "nobody" in the business right now I have 3 phone lines, 2 of them unlisted, and multiple email addresses. People can find me easily and contact me however they want, but on my terms. That was all I was trying to say. The phone number you find for me, if you were to look, is something that I can forward to any phone and turn off and on with the touch of a button.

For me to be set up like this, I would think for sure an industry pro would run rings around my barriers of detachment from the random online world. If anyone is interested in how you set up a system like this feel free to msg me and I will tell you how you can do it too, for free.

Anyway Chuck, if the two of us were to start on a piece tonight we would prob come up with the nail-biteiest, suspensiest what is gonna happen next piece of music, ever.

Thanks for the comments and see ya around...