Free Vocals* ...need your advice pls.

[cardell]

I've been mulling something over for a while now.

I'm considering offering my services as a singer (on certain tracks) for free to Taxi.com members. I would even sign a "Work for Hire" agreement stating the fact.

I've been working on my own tracks...and finishing very few. I tend to get especially stuck with writing lyrics.

The way I see this: I could record a dry vocal track (on someone's song) and potentially end up with a vocal on a Film, TV show, advertisement or whatever. These days (in my 40's) this is my part time hobby. I don't see myself making any real money from music, but I love the idea of having some of my work used.

I may want to change a few lines (just ask Magne... ) but I would not generally seek a writing credit (just depends on the number of changes).

However, before I start this...I need some advice/input to help me avoid doing something stupid.

I sound like this:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/1K6M3Y5WPCNJ6M6 ... 090131.mp3
http://s3.amazonaws.com/1K6M3Y5WPCNJ6M6 ... 145658.mp3

Stuart

[Len911]

Stuart, your vocals sound top notch!

Worst case scenario, you get signed to label ABC, record a cd. Label XYZ buys a dozen or so songs from taxi members with your vocals for $1,000 a piece with all rights. They make a cd. What if label XYZ does zero promotion but lets label ABC promote, charge you, and you make little off your cd, but label XYZ has very little invested with full rights, you make zip, and they make a windfall. How might you feel then? Or what if it was label ABC, your own label who bought the songs, didn't release your cd, but instead released the one with your vocals on the songs? The likelihood of that happening probably is not very great, and you could also maybe write a bestseller if that did happen, but hey I suppose it's possible,lol!

[Kolstad]

I tend to be too rigid on the business end to be able to offer any constructive advice here, Stuart (you already know ), but I'd like to add some perspective with some examples.

Male vocalists on "Pure Vocals" around 140$ http://www.purevocals.org/Session_Singer.html
Vocals with guitar/piano at Nashville Demo Studio 200$ http://www.nashvilledemostudio.com/pricing.htm
Vocals in the UK are typically even more expensive http://www.singerspro.com/uk/search_all ... ord=&name=
Vocals at Studio Pros is about 125$ http://studiopros.com/vocalist.php?id=Male
Vocals with DBW in L.A. 100$ http://www.dbwproductions.com/rates.html

You probably get the point. Great vocals is a commodity in demand, and you are as p.r.o. as anyone featured in the links above, Stuart (except when you change lyrics.. heheh, you had that coming ).

So why not use the tried and tested models, either collaborate or charge. You could sign up with Singers Pro, Pure Vocals and Demosinger.com, and advertise your services on a personal website or simple blog.

I'd bet you'd be booked full within a year. The money you can use to buy gear (to build a bigger studio), travel ect., even if you don't want to "make money" off of it.

Why reject the obvious opportunities to make money, Stuart? People who make money because their work is appreciated or in demand, are not bad people.. they are just professional in the sense they are paid to continue what they do (because people want them to)..

And you SHOULD sing, Stuart. You are truly talented, and great to work with..

[cardell]

Thanks for the great comments Len.

So why not use the tried and tested models, either collaborate or charge. You could sign up with Singers Pro, Pure Vocals and Demosinger.com, and advertise your services on a personal website or simple blog.

This is were I started (with my thinking) but I realized that I'm too choosy. I only want to sing on tracks that I really feel and/or believe in. It's more important to me when it's a vocal than an instrumental part I contribute.

Also, my vocal style is kinda specific (and a little old fashioned) so it doesn't really work on modern stuff.

Why reject the obvious opportunities to make money, Stuart? People who make money because their work is appreciated or in demand, are not bad people.. they are just professional in the sense they are paid to continue what they do (because people want them to)..

Yes, I agree 100%. It's not that I don't want to make any money from music. I just don't expect that I will because of how choosy I can be.

I play a few different instruments...but singing (to me) is the most personal one. I can maintain a high level of anonymity on tracks where I am not singing, but it's much harder to when you're the lead vocalist. People are more likely to ask, "Why did you sing on that cr@p song!?", then they are to ask, "Why did you play on that cr@p song!?"...you see?

... (except when you change lyrics.. heheh, you had that coming ).

..I deserved that, thanks for your patient with my suggestions.

Stuart

[Kolstad]

I feel I get your perspective, Stuart.. you don't want to sing the phonebook.. even if you can make it sound great!

That's an artists perspective, which I understand as that's where you're coming from. The studio cat identity is somewhat different, but remember the folks that hire you are intelligent people. If you provide them with samples up front, that feature your voice, they will choose you because they believe you can give their song the expression they feel is right. They won't hire you because they can't find someone else. Just to say it's likely the songs you gets asked to sing will suit your voice..

If you disagree or don't like the lyrics ect. and want to maintain the right to be picky, you could always team up with someone else, so you can direct the customers you can't/won't acommodate to someone who can (and perhaps skim a percentage off of that). It could be any of the above, or someone Marc Blackwell who also help writers out with demos http://www.marcblackwellmusic.com/site/demoservice/ . It's allowed to say no. Michael Laskow is a good example, on many occasions I've read that he will return members money, if he belives he can't help them or if their values are too different to accomodate.

Anyway, I realize I'm all business here, and that you want to maintain the ideals. Which is commendable! I'm a pragmatic guy who believes those two can marry, though. It's ultimately about finding an arrangement that works for you.

[Casey H]

It sounds like collaboration is more what you are seeking. You can pick and choose what songs you think you can add good value to, do vocals and maybe other instruments, and make some writing changes. In exchange, you would get co-write & co-ownership (master) credit.

I'll drop you a PM. Maybe we can work together on something.

Casey

[cardell]

Michael Laskow is a good example, on many occasions I've read that he will return members money, if he belives he can't help them or if their values are too different to accomodate.

Yes, I really admire Michael for that. In fact, he continues to be a real inspiration to me.

It sounds like collaboration is more what you are seeking. You can pick and choose what songs you think you can add good value to, do vocals and maybe other instruments, and make some writing changes. In exchange, you would get co-write & co-ownership (master) credit.

Thanks Casey, you may be right about this. I guess I'm (still) just trying to find my place here.

You see, I can spend days doing an entire track with an average song (I'm quite good at writing those.. ) submit the thing, then have nothing happen.

Or...I can spend 1 hour doing a vocal for someone, like this one I just did on Magne's song:
http://soundcloud.com/the-songcabinet/w ... turns-into

I simply sent Magne a two take vocal comp (48khz, 24bit), dry, un-tuned with a tiny bit of compression. I left the vocal treatment up to him.

This is Magne's original version (that inspired me):
http://soundcloud.com/the-songcabinet/w ... -into-snow

BTW, I'm technically not a Taxi.com member because our membership (mine & Eliza's) is in Eliza's name. Hence my wanting to work with Taxi.com members. Also, I really do believe in Taxi.com. I've been around here long enough to see that it works.

Edit: BTW, Magne has cut me in on this track, which I appreciate...but the truth is: I would have done this for nothing for him because it was a privledge to sing on his song (i.e. I like this song of his). He just had to put up with my requests for lyrical changes...

Stuart

[Casey H]

One of the best tracks I ever did (now in that highly selective LA library that often lists with Taxi ) was the result of working with another Taxi member. At first I approached him to do it as a paid work for hire. After kicking it around, he said he preferred to make it a co-write instead which was fine with me. The lines are blurry sometimes anyway as a producer/performer adds their own discretion when recording your compostion.

So instead of paying him, we split ownership.

The reason I'm saying this is there is a great chance you could make similar arrangements with other Taxi members. This is especially good if the upfront money is not what you need right now.

Good luck!
Casey

[Len911]

This is were I started (with my thinking) but I realized that I'm too choosy. I only want to sing on tracks that I really feel and/or believe in. It's more important to me when it's a vocal than an instrumental part I contribute.
Also, my vocal style is kinda specific (and a little old fashioned) so it doesn't really work on modern stuff.
It's not that I don't want to make any money from music. I just don't expect that I will because of how choosy I can be.
I play a few different instruments...but singing (to me) is the most personal one. I can maintain a high level of anonymity on tracks where I am not singing, but it's much harder to when you're the lead vocalist. People are more likely to ask, "Why did you sing on that cr@p song!?", then they are to ask, "Why did you play on that cr@p song!?"...you see?
Stuart

You said a mouthful. I guess singing is a lot like sex.

[cardell]

You said a mouthful. I guess singing is a lot like sex.

Well, it's very personal. And what happens, right or wrong, is the majority of listeners believe that the singer wrote the song anyway.

I've also found that money gets in the way of a lot of things in life...you know? You know what I'd tell my 23 year old self (if I could go back in time 20 years), just sing on anything that you like for nothing! I probably wouldn't believe myself though...

I have done recordings for labels and major producers. A label here (in Australia) was interested in me in my early 20's but I didn't have any decent songs (nothing has really changed). So then, I worked as a session singer for a few different producers here in Melbourne. I used to sing their songs so the "real" artist could learn and copy the song. They used to copy my frills and everything.

Sometimes they would use notes of my (recorded) performance that the artist couldn't hit. Remeber, this was in the days before AutoTune & Melodyne. I was told that the practice was quite common...but no-one talked about it openly.

However, all of that that stopped (abruptly) for me when I started making a fuss about wanting more money....you see: you live and learn...

Stuart