Group learning lyrics participation :-)

[fret17]

Hi Ben....This is just my opinion...but I don't get why everyone is up in the air about the phrase "To be with you now"....The fact that the note raises in the melody on the word "now" was enough for me to suggest that the writer/singer is clearly saying with musical emphisis "...to be with you.."NOW"....IN THE NOW!...not the future....as in "I don't want to wait another freaking second....I want to be with you NOW!!...and while we're on the subject of grammer....talk to grammy and oscar award winning songwriter David Gates...Just off the top of my head the line he wrote in "Baby I'm a want you".."You're the only one I care enough to hurt about"....and he's done it in other songs as well....Music is supposed to move the listener....Ben does this in this piece Eloquently!
Record buyers and radio listeners aren't buying because something is gamatically correct.
Ben's audience is not coming up to him on his break asking "What does that song mean?"..They're probably clapping so much the thought never crosses their minds!..
Great job Ben....you moved me!

[benwebb]

It seems there is a bit of miscommunication because of the message board format. Please do not read into my post with negativity.. just searching for clarity.

I was wanting to gauge my full response based upon if Casey had listened to the song or not, because to me that holds two different responses. I misunderstood his post ,in the context of not hearing the song, to be condescending.. But i was mistaken. The only reason why it came across condescending is that i am well aware of storyboarding. To read it within his post.."you should storyboard' again, after reading uncontextual statements, and things like "there were a lot of problems with the lyrics as far as clarity & depth of story, grammar, tense, person, POV, etc." got me worried that this thread was going go down a path that is not so fun...

That said...Thanks Casey in making some good statements. And i do not want to get off side with you at all ...I really appreciate honesty..i was just afraid this thread will take the turn of a debate about a study in grammar when thats not really what i signed up for. But thank you for clarifying it without taking offense to my reply, i really appreciate the "removing obstacles for A & R ..." I get that totally.

I am all up for suggestions on how to improve a certain line, in the context of the song, for the sake of a taxi experiment. But the reality is that the reviewing of songs is incredibly subjective, and the re-writing should also be very contextual. We could discuss for ages the relevance of countless incredibly successful commercial songs and songwriters...

It would not be productive of our time, nor very encouraging for myself, to just hear phrases such as 'needs auto tune' (which i totally know, it was the producers call to leave the notes...he's anti autotune) or 'story board it' without offering actual lyrical suggestions for improvement.

Instead of pointing out the 10 ways someone is fat.. how about ...Let's go for a run together

Dave i am really quite relaxed about this , i just want to be clear on my intentions to the agreement of the discussion of this board. Im not up for a debate, Im up for good times with positive results. The songs already been knocked back... Lyrically , for that screener, the song wasn't up to snuff...being people with trained ears we could pick holes in any song anyone ever presented.

If we could stay on topic with a lyrics participation that would be great... other wise this isnt productive, it's just two cents page.

Fret17: Thanks so much for that support and statement... First up.. Stoked you dig the tunes... We share the same philosophy that songs should be tested in public environments where human emotions can respond, whether making grammatical sense or not.


This song was written within a moment.. about a person, so i couldnt really storyboard a singular moment in time, it was me, a guitar and my heart... The Screener made focus on the line "feel you in these walls" which i was really surprised at the misunderstanding... The second half was written as a female response. So for example one of those movies where there is a split shot and they are both staring at the sky thinking about each other.

The screener ask's for "Maybe you develop this idea by describing how you want to be with the person, what you would do, how it would feel, or how you would show them how you feel."

My initial though was .. "but thats not what the song's about".

How do you want to be with that person = I want to be with the person... now. (ALA Fret17... nailed it!)

What would i do = Irrelevant... Just want to be with them

How it would feel... = Well obviously awesome.. .I mean the whole song is about realizing how much you love someone once they are gone.

How would you show them how you feel = Well i think barry white's entire catalog covers that subject.


In an attempt to keep this experiment a cracking along... How about we start from scratch eh ?
So the song is about capturing a moment of missing someone... they are on the other side of the world... and you want to be with them... now

Lets rewrite.

[Casey H]

I am all up for suggestions on how to improve a certain line, in the context of the song, for the sake of a taxi experiment. But the reality is that the reviewing of songs is incredibly subjective, and the re-writing should also be very contextual. We could discuss for ages the relevance of countless incredibly successful commercial songs and songwriters...

It would not be productive of our time, nor very encouraging for myself, to just hear phrases such as 'needs auto tune' (which i totally know, it was the producers call to leave the notes...he's anti autotune) or 'story board it' without offering actual lyrical suggestions for improvement.

Hi Ben
Glad we are all in good spirit here. I'm not big on group re-write (though Dave's idea might be a good one) but I have some general comments FWIW... It's great that you are open to re-write.

The bottom line here is Taxi and hence this forum is about making music the most commercially viable as possible. If someone says upfront they are doing the music for their own pleasure, not for any commercial success, that's different. But this all started with a concern about a Taxi review and the screener's feedback on your lyrics. That puts us in the commercial realm.

Yes, some aspects of song critiques are subjective and you will get conflicting feedback. However, if there is a pattern of similar feedback you really need to consider what's being said. We can't fall back on the "it's all subjective" thing if the indications from multiple qualified sources are that a work falls below a certain level. I’m not saying I’m a “qualified source”. But there are plenty of pro-reviewers out there, screeners, etc.

We've all been there and I am still there sometimes-- holding on to lyrics in too deeply of a personal way. When we start explaining too much what events in real life made us write what we did, the story behind the song, etc some flags go up. Not that all that is not very interesting. I love the stories behind songs! But part of the art is to take the real life spark that got the creative juices flowing and craft it to something everyone else can feel in their heart and soul right away. Your saying "I am all up for suggestions on how to improve a certain line, in the context of the song" gave me the impression you are holding on to some things too tightly. Maybe it's a lot more than a few lines that need change. Maybe the storyline won't end up exactly as you first envisioned it. There is an old expression in songwriting, "Don't write what you want to say, write what others want to hear". That doesn’t mean your song is bad! It means you are in one stage of the process with that song.

In the commercial world today, there isn’t much tolerance for pitchy spots. It’s a shame because sometimes a little bit of imperfection adds character. But reality is perfectly tuned vocals are usually expected. I’ve had to go back and have vocals re-done on already produced tracks. So if your producer won’t use autotune, find someone else to tune the vocals and then have it all re-mixed. Hating autotune won’t get your songs forwarded and/or placed. Obviously the best of all worlds is to have the vocal as close to pitch as possible to start with so the tuning is for minor touch ups only. (Maybe some folks here will let you know specific spots that sound pitchy)...

If your goal truly is to get your song placed such as on film/TV, you will have to follow a lot of suggested guidelines and rules. The bar is higher for unknown artists and writers than for established ones. Forget that you hear stuff on the radio that might be far worse than something you are writing. It’s irrelevant. There is a big double standard.

At this point I think you know there is no negative tone in my post. If you ever want to talk off-line, just drop me a PM!

Best
Casey

[fret17]

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[2lane]

Hey Ben, I'm just wondering....did the screener give any indication anywhere on the critique that vocal was pitchy?
Steve

[glender]

I don't think I'd start hacking into this song. It's simple, well thought out, flows nice. It's just right the way it is. I think it's exactly what it was meant to be, nothing more nothing less. If the screeners didn't submit it you'll need to find another resource for getting it to market, that's all. I say leave it alone and move on to the next song. I wouldn't touch it, the minute you do you'll ruin this nice little tune.

When ever I think about hacking into a song once it's finished I remember what John said to Paul after he wrote "Hey Jude" but wasn't happy with the lyrics. John said "Don't touch it, It's perfect just the way it is" Now that was some good advice.

PS - The quote is not verbatim

gl