Help! Questions regarding critiques

[annaeadie]

First, thank you for taking the time to read this. All of the critiques I have received have been helpful. However there is one, by listener 245 (re my song "Can I Come In) that has some wording that confuses me a little. Perhaps someone can explain. The following was written (and then I'll end by stating the 3 things that confuse me.) "Greetings Anna, Thanks for your submission. I feel that what you have here is not a Country music style song. Country music songwriting is a very specialized craft with its own trends. I suggest grabbing a CD or two from the Billboard hot 100 Country chart and see what the current hit songwriters are up to and what the art form is all about. For commercial Country listings, I would also like to suggest submitting a more professional sounding recording with a pro band, singer and music production that mirrors closer the sound of music the listing is looking for...."My questions:#1 The listener stated that it is not a country style song, and gave me tips on learning more about the country style, but failed to give me any direction for the song itself. Maybe it would be helpful to tell me what style you think the song is closest to. for example..."I would consider this more of a pop song, you can take it that route or if you'd really like it to be country here are some tips. " I just think that would be helpful. I'm not stuck on country. If the song would fit better in another genre I'd like to know so I can edit it accordingly.#2 When I was recording this song, it was one of 40 songs I recorded that week. I didn't spend that much time perfecting the vocals because I had watched a TAXI seminar where Michael had said that if you are only pitching a song and not a band, they are far less concerned with the quality of the demo. I'm only pitching songs, and none of the listings I submitted to said broadcast quality needed. All of the other critiques I have gotten back have checked that the vocal helped sell the song. I was relieved! But this one said the vocal did not help sell the song. Since I recorded them all at practically the same time, well, it just confuses me a little.#3 Along the same point, the listener suggested "submitting a more professional sounding recording with a pro band, singer and music production......" Again, I'm just pitching my song, not a band, so is this really necessary? I have heard Michael say no. Has the idustry changed? Are they requiring more professional demos now for song pitching?Any help understanding this would be very much appreciated!Thank you! Anna Eadie annaeadie@yahoo.com

[sgs4u]

Quote:Are they requiring more professional demos now for song pitching?Any help understanding this would be very much appreciated!Thank you! Anna Eadie annaeadie@yahoo.comWell this is a tough one to tackle, and I'm certainly NOT the only guy that should answer it, because I've been baffled by the same thing a few times. I do have enough patience to stick it out, and see why recording/production quality, matters so much in song pitches. It does seem like Taxi and/or Michael talk about how easy it is to put presentable recordings together, and then the screeners have much higher standards than Michael ever talks about, when he's enrolling. Here on the forum, the taxi staff and Michael are always pretty clear about why and how much quality matters. I think we all pay attention to whatever we're looking to hear, when we join. Then we're surprised at the reality of Taxi's high standards. And I think that happens to EVERY SINGLE NEW MEMBER. We all go through this same learning curve, crushed egos and self-realization. If you think about it, it's pretty obvious. Creators that are all ready making a living from making music, outside of Taxi, aren't coming here so much. I would even guess that there are many Taxi members that no longer participate in this forum or are Taxi member's because they've kinda graduated out of here, into getting paid much bigger numbers. Maybe I'm wrong. No big deal to me either way. It's hard to fathom how much I've actually learned here in a year. Some of my biggest teachers here, have been jerks to me. Great training indeed!! And then once my wounded pride recovers, I learn something new. Whether your recordings/songs are finished masters from a CD, or simple voice/ instrument demos, the vocalist always needs to be the right sound and conveying the right emotion, for the song. If you're writing a song for a woman, make sure you have a woman singing the demo. If it's a piano & vocal, the piano should be played and recorded really well, same applies if it's a guitar/vocal. If you're doing a country song demo with a full band sound, pay pro's to do the job. Expect to pay $500 - $1000 a track in Nashville. I do think Taxi screeners expect very professional demos for song pitches. The custom critiques can be extremely helpful with a host of issues. But you have to ask very specific questions to get really specific answers. You have to remember, the screeners have "X" amount of time, to give you feedback. They don't have a clue what you need to hear(unless you ask em), only what they think sticks out the most in your song, good or bad. The more detail you ask for, the more you will get. I've had one song custom critiqued 5 times, and pretty much get the same info. "Good song, go to Nashville with it." I don't like hearing that I need to spend $700 or so, but now I REALLY UNDERSTAND why. But at least they've said the song is worthy of that level of production. Everyone here also has stories (and probably dreams) about the songs that break the rules... and those matter just as much. Now, these are just some of my observations, after participating here for almost a year. I have a nice list of threads where I've been the dufus noobie. And if I'm wrong about anything here, it'll be pointed out quickly, and we'll all learn something new. There is an insane amount of great information about every kind of question you can imagine, because everyone basically goes through the same stages of development. Become familiar with the search buttons, relating to this forum. I bet there's easily as much great advice hidden in this forum's archives as any great music biz book out there. Learn how to Google, because this Internet, can get you from point A to B, in a lot of different ways. It's a long entertaining read, as they say. (The Divy's, HookstownBrown, Shakabrah for sheer in-your-faceness. Vikki, Matto, Dave Walton, & Casey for the facts.) There are hundreds of inspirational threads here, maybe thousands. The collective soul of Taxi never sleeps... it just keeps growing. yep, still lovin' it heresteve

[jh]

Hi Anna,I listened to your song and to me it sounded more like pop, like you said. Generally speaking:These days the competition is harder than ever, because it is possible to make a high quality recordings and productions at home. A&R people have become so accustomed to good sounding "demos", that they don´t seem to hear "the song" that well anymore. However, the song has to be excellent too. It is crazy, but the song doesn´t seem to get a "fair judgement" if the sound quality and production isn´t good, no matter what they tell ya. Quote:"Whether your recordings/songs are finished masters from a CD, or simple voice/ instrument demos, the vocalist always needs to be the right sound and conveying the right emotion, for the song. If you're writing a song for a woman, make sure you have a woman singing the demo. If it's a piano & vocal, the piano should be played and recorded really well, same applies if it's a guitar/vocal. " Only 3 years ago the answer was different. - JH

[Casey H]

Quote:First, thank you for taking the time to read this. All of the critiques I have received have been helpful. However there is one, by listener 245 (re my song "Can I Come In) that has some wording that confuses me a little. Perhaps someone can explain. The following was written (and then I'll end by stating the 3 things that confuse me.) "Greetings Anna, Thanks for your submission. I feel that what you have here is not a Country music style song. Country music songwriting is a very specialized craft with its own trends. I suggest grabbing a CD or two from the Billboard hot 100 Country chart and see what the current hit songwriters are up to and what the art form is all about. For commercial Country listings, I would also like to suggest submitting a more professional sounding recording with a pro band, singer and music production that mirrors closer the sound of music the listing is looking for...."My questions:#1 The listener stated that it is not a country style song, and gave me tips on learning more about the country style, but failed to give me any direction for the song itself. Maybe it would be helpful to tell me what style you think the song is closest to. for example..."I would consider this more of a pop song, you can take it that route or if you'd really like it to be country here are some tips. " I just think that would be helpful. I'm not stuck on country. If the song would fit better in another genre I'd like to know so I can edit it accordingly.#2 When I was recording this song, it was one of 40 songs I recorded that week. I didn't spend that much time perfecting the vocals because I had watched a TAXI seminar where Michael had said that if you are only pitching a song and not a band, they are far less concerned with the quality of the demo. I'm only pitching songs, and none of the listings I submitted to said broadcast quality needed. All of the other critiques I have gotten back have checked that the vocal helped sell the song. I was relieved! But this one said the vocal did not help sell the song. Since I recorded them all at practically the same time, well, it just confuses me a little.#3 Along the same point, the listener suggested "submitting a more professional sounding recording with a pro band, singer and music production......" Again, I'm just pitching my song, not a band, so is this really necessary? I have heard Michael say no. Has the industry changed? Are they requiring more professional demos now for song pitching?Any help understanding this would be very much appreciated!Thank you! Anna Eadie annaeadie@yahoo.comHi AnnaCritiques are generally done in the context of what the listing asked for. I assume you submitted for a country music listing and the song not sounding country is what stood out most in the reviewer's mind. That being said, I suggest giving taxi a call and asking them if it would have been a reasonable expectation to get more feedback on the song itself with your submission. They will cheerfully answer your question. I expect that they will either suggest you submit for a custom critique or maybe have a screener give you more information per this submission. Now the issue of how good the demo has to be is often discussed on these boards. As Steve pointed out on another thread, I think your demo often has to be better than the stated minimum standard. But this is where people get confused when they are told a guitar & vocal or piano & vocal are OK. If you go with a G&V or P&V, it still must sound polished- vocals up front and on-key, sung with emotion that sells the song, tempo maintained consistent throughout, and the guitar or piano played like a pro or at least not sounding amateurish. So not paying attention to the vocals may have hurt you here.It is often mentioned here that a full-blown professional Nashville demo usually costs between $500 and $1000. That's tough on the wallet for most of us. But what people should know is that those same services will do a G&V for a lot less, sometimes as little as $150. So it you want a decent G&V and can't cut it on your own, think about that. BUT here is the generally recommended sequence if you are writing a song to pitch to Nashville (or many other things too):1. Record a rough demo at home. This CAN be very rough- just show the lyrics and the melody.2. Get pro-critiques, using that rough demo, from services like John Braheny, Jason Blume, and TAXI custom. 3. Re-work your song until you feel you have addressed the important issues. Pick one of these custom reviewers to re-review the song with changes.4. IF you can afford it, the best thing would be to invest in a full-blown Nashville demo ($500-$1000). If you really, really can't find any way to scrape up the money and you cannot produce a quality G&V on your own, have a demo service do one ($150-$250)I hope this was helpful. Best Regards, Casey

[horacejesse]

Steve, that was one of the best posts I have ever read on here. You summed up the stages of Quote:crushed egos and self-realization. like a man who has been through it. Quote:I've had one song custom critiqued 5 times, and pretty much get the same info. "Good song, go to Nashville with it." I don't like hearing that I need to spend $700 or so, but now I REALLY UNDERSTAND why. But at least they've said the song is worthy of that level of production. When you submit it to a high bar country listing you are trying to go to Nashville with it. Do you think they are saying they might forward it as it is but it would have a greater chance of being noticed with the pro Nashville production? I would hate to think that is the necessary next step if Nashville cats are actually going to listen to what you have to offer.I understand that Elliot Park and the other tandem that wrote "Buy Me A Rose" made it through the Taxi gates with simple but clean demos. For all I know, after that they had their songs demoed again, this with heavier artillery.

[sgs4u]

Quote:1. Record a rough demo at home. This CAN be very rough- just show the lyrics and the melody.2. Get pro-critiques, using that rough demo, from services like John Braheny, Jason Blume, and TAXI custom. 3. Re-work your song until you feel you have addressed the important issues. Pick one of these custom reviewers to re-review the song with changes.4. IF you can afford it, the best thing would be to inve st in a full-blown Nashville demo ($500-$1000). If you really, really can't find any way to scrape up the money and you cannot produce a quality G&V on your own, have a demo service do one ($150-$250)I hope this was helpful. Best Regards, Casey thx for jumping in Casey, What you said, that was much more helpful. I was allowing my own experience and emotions to color my post way too much.

[Casey H]

SteveEveryone's input is helpful... The part of my post that you quoted might address a question that is always asked on these boards. I feel like we should put this somewhere on an advice page (with modifications as suggested by some others with experience in this area)... And also:If you go with a G&V or P&V, it still must sound polished- vocals up front and on-key, sung with emotion that sells the song, tempo maintained consistent throughout, and the guitar or piano played like a pro or at least not sounding amateurish.Many people confuse being told a simple G&V is OK with it being acceptable for that recording to have blemishes. Casey

[matto]

Quote:Thanks for your submission. I feel that what you have here is not a Country music style song. Country music songwriting is a very specialized craft with its own trends. I suggest grabbing a CD or two from the Billboard hot 100 Country chart and see what the current hit songwriters are up to and what the art form is all about. Hey Anna, the screener is right that country music writing is a very specialized craft, and if your song doesn't have that flavor, no amount of mandolins, fiddles and steel guitars is gonna make it sound country...not to a Nashville person anyway.And you know...the only way you can get a TRUE feel for any style of music is to listen to tons and tons of it, so I think the screener's suggestion is a good one.And until then, presenting a real "country" demo of your song is a moot point, the song itself has to be there first. If you wanna post the song, perhaps some of us here can give you a better idea of where it fits stylistically.Best of luck,matto