Hey Dave! MP3s ---

[davem]

Had to say THANKS for the ideas. I reduced the level from -1db to -3 db on this, and that 2 db made a HUGE diff in the sound of the MP3!

Finger satyle guitar piece - Hanging Out. I intend to re-do a tad slower, and the bass needs a little help. I would appreciate any other thoughts...

http://www.taximusic.com/hosting/home.php?userid=30468

[davem]

forgot to ment: the one with the CAPITAL H in Hanging is at -3db. The little h one is at -1...

[cardell]

Great thread...thanks for the info!

Stuart

[chrisaleshire]

When I used Pro-Tools I was export it to a Wav then use Razorlame to convert it to an mp3 to send it to the other guys in my music project, just to give ideas.

I use Reaper now but I still export to WAV then MP3, in case they want the pure sound and not the heavily compressed file.

Razorlame works with Lame, it just makes everything more automated. You can just drag and drop the WAV to the GUI and bounce it to mp3 really quick.

http://www.dors.de/razorlame/

[jdhogg]

Interesting thing about the bass on those Motown records, I suspect James Jamerson's dead strings (he used the same bass and the same set of strings on every record) had very little transient energy at the front end of the note; thusly avoiding the threshold of any limiters and compressors further down the chain....he could get more lows, cuz he had no highs, sorta thing. The kick drum, conversely, was kinda pointy, with more beater impact than note. For non-soundtrack stuff, I dump everything below 'bout 50Hz; nuthin' down there you wanna hear, jes' air-conditioning rumble and a semi changin' gears a block or two away, heh.

For me, it's garbage trucks in the alley, and Lear jets going out of Van Nuys Airport heheh!

As far as Jamerson, I think you have it, Mojo. He maybe used a mute on the bridge to dampen the sustain, but I've heard more often that he opened up his Fender bass and put sound-deadening material in it to make his sustain really short. If you listen to some of his parts soloed on YouTube, they're really dirty and noisy, but NO sustain! I think he had a direct box that he could dial in as much "fur" as he wanted, but the lack of sustain was totally from his bass and how he played (I've heard with just his index finger --- how he could play so many notes with one finger is beyond me!). What a great musician ---

Ern

yup, He would play straight into a valve compressor, I would guess that is a fair bit of how the transients are shaped. The gain would be turned up to make it distort a bit. He never cleaned his bass or strings and played with "the claw"....his index finger.
My fav bass player.

[rnrmachine]

I thought I heard a huge difference.. the H being the better sound.. I came back and saw that I was correct. The H being the -3. Both do sound good because of the talent of the guitar but the tonal qualities in the H as opposed to the h are night and day.

I have a question... IF I was using a limiter on the Master Buss. Do I just drop the output of the limiter down from where it is to the -3? OR do I move the fader down -3 DB?

I assume I do NOT do it at the input of the Master Buss... correct?

Also, I just wanted to reaffirm what I am reading here.. you only do this for MP3s. You leave it where you had it for CD right?

Rob

[mojobone]

As far as Jamerson, I think you have it, Mojo. He maybe used a mute on the bridge to dampen the sustain, but I've heard more often that he opened up his Fender bass and put sound-deadening material in it to make his sustain really short. If you listen to some of his parts soloed on YouTube, they're really dirty and noisy, but NO sustain! I think he had a direct box that he could dial in as much "fur" as he wanted, but the lack of sustain was totally from his bass and how he played (I've heard with just his index finger --- how he could play so many notes with one finger is beyond me!). What a great musician ---

Ern

If you check out Jamerson's bass, the original Fender mute is still on it; he may have been the only guy that didn't take it off and chuck it. I've heard tell of a little homebrew box associated with that bass rig, too.

[mojobone]

I thought I heard a huge difference.. the H being the better sound.. I came back and saw that I was correct. The H being the -3. Both do sound good because of the talent of the guitar but the tonal qualities in the H as opposed to the h are night and day.

I have a question... IF I was using a limiter on the Master Buss. Do I just drop the output of the limiter down from where it is to the -3? OR do I move the fader down -3 DB?

I assume I do NOT do it at the input of the Master Buss... correct?

Also, I just wanted to reaffirm what I am reading here.. you only do this for MP3s. You leave it where you had it for CD right?

Rob

You can do it either at the bus compressor's makeup gain or at the master fader; it shouldn't make an audible difference with most digital compressors, but if you mix outside the box, definitely use the fader.

[Casey H]

I also find it helpful to gently roll off the highs above 10kHz, and not get too crazy with the low end; I was listening to some late eighties country CDs last night, (practicing me drums) and it's amazing how little bass energy they used compared to now. Frankly, I think this has to do with format changes, too, not just the volume wars-when those CDs were made, (Vern Gosdin, Desert Rose Band) they were also coming out on vinyl, where too much bass will pop the needle right out the groove.

Yes, and yes about a couple of things, Mojo: --- 1. People always complain about cymbals on mp3s. Too "swishy" sounding ("Not that there's anything wrong with that"--- Seinfeld ), which might be too much high end on a mix. Personally, I haven't found that on my mixes, but there ya go. --- 2. Bass used to be REALLY understated because of vinyl and the needle popping out of the groove. That's less of a concern with digital music, of course, but I always roll off the low lows anyway @ 40-50 hz.

It's funny that McCartney used to bitch at the EMI engineers that his bass parts had no low end. These guys WERE engineers, wearing white lab coats etc., and told the Beatles that they had to follow scientific standards. But Paul told them "Listen to Motown, for godssakes! James Jamerson has TONS of low end on his bass!" The lads got their wishes on boosting treble during the middle years, and FINALLY on bass (Abbey Road). I've got a vinyl copy from "The Original Master" of Abbey Road, and the bass is almost TOO much! Paul must've been pleased.

BTW, a bass player friend of mine has always griped about "There's no high-end!" on Fragile by YES. Maybe he's right, but it sure is a great sounding recording, even to this day!

Ern

I once read that George Harrison was not happy with there being TOO MUCH bass on "Something" (Abbey Road). Maybe McCartney's influence was not want he envisioned on that song.

Casey

[rnrmachine]

Thnx Mojo!!