How to copyright 2 versions of same song?

[RPaul]

"The French Connection" - that is, if I get help releasing either-or-both of these on radio in Paris - the co-writer suggests I copyright the English version as well.
I could use some directions/instructions - HOW TO DO THAT?

Not legal advice, but whichever came first (English or French) to complete the song would be the original song (Form PA) copyright. The second language adaptation would be a derivative copyright, and you'd note that the music is excluded, and would reference the original copyright in the filing for the derivative work. The derivative work would likely have some additional information, too, such as the translator as lyricist, and, depending on the legal agreement between you may or may also be a copyright claimant in the derivative.

Thanks for your post.
FYI: the English version came first, actually with different instrumentation & treatment. My Gypsy/Jazz interpretation AND the French rendition followed.
It was inspired by the music from the movie "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels".
The translation was done by friends of mine assisting the vocalist - who did the lioness's share, and who is multi-lingual in her performing... and all that was 'included' in her WFH.
Merci beaucoup.

Remember you need to separate out song and recording for copyright purposes. So your gypsy jazz and original English version interpretation would probably be two separate copyrights on the sound recording front, but only one on the performing arts (song) front. But the French lyric would make for a separate (derivative) copyright on the song front (and the French recording would be a separate sound recording). Whether you register the various versions or not is an entirely different matter, of course.

Also, if it was work for hire on the translation, then you'd probably indicate the translator(s) in the derivative copyright, noting it as a work-for-hire, but would not include them as copyright claimants. Not sure if that is what you are suggesting here, though.

I actually have a French version of one of my songs coming out later this month. In this case, I worked closely with the French lyricist on the French version, and agreed to give him half of the French version of the song (but no claim on the English language version, which has been recorded and released by two artists in addition to my version -- for instrumental recordings, I decided to give him half only when the French title is used). The French recording is mine, but I did get a fair amount of "consulting" on my pronunciation from the lyricist. French is a REALLY tough language on that front.

Rick

[funsongs]

Not legal advice, but whichever came first (English or French) to complete the song would be the original song (Form PA) copyright. The second language adaptation would be a derivative copyright, and you'd note that the music is excluded, and would reference the original copyright in the filing for the derivative work. The derivative work would likely have some additional information, too, such as the translator as lyricist, and, depending on the legal agreement between you may or may also be a copyright claimant in the derivative.

Thanks for your post.
FYI: the English version came first, actually with different instrumentation & treatment. My Gypsy/Jazz interpretation AND the French rendition followed.
It was inspired by the music from the movie "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels".
The translation was done by friends of mine assisting the vocalist - who did the lioness's share, and who is multi-lingual in her performing... and all that was 'included' in her WFH.
Merci beaucoup.

Remember you need to separate out song and recording for copyright purposes. So your gypsy jazz and original English version interpretation would probably be two separate copyrights on the sound recording front, but only one on the performing arts (song) front. But the French lyric would make for a separate (derivative) copyright on the song front (and the French recording would be a separate sound recording). Whether you register the various versions or not is an entirely different matter, of course.

Also, if it was work for hire on the translation, then you'd probably indicate the translator(s) in the derivative copyright, noting it as a work-for-hire, but would not include them as copyright claimants. Not sure if that is what you are suggesting here, though.

I actually have a French version of one of my songs coming out later this month. In this case, I worked closely with the French lyricist on the French version, and agreed to give him half of the French version of the song (but no claim on the English language version, which has been recorded and released by two artists in addition to my version -- for instrumental recordings, I decided to give him half only when the French title is used). The French recording is mine, but I did get a fair amount of "consulting" on my pronunciation from the lyricist. French is a REALLY tough language on that front.

Rick

After reading that comment - I wanted to clarify: the original - Peter Sprague's composition, which he sent to me to write lyrics to his melody - which I did the rough DEMO vocal myself (ugh)

- which later got vocals by the singer I brought in as a WFH - Stacy Antonel.
That was the first 'official' version of the song. I don't think a recording of it was ever released;
and several different vocalists have performed it live.
NEXT - with Peter Sprague's okay and help getting the players - we cut my vision of the song in French, with Allison's trio.
LAST - with those same tracks, we had Stacy come back and re-do her vocal in the Gypsy/Jazz style.

Clear as mud? HA - actually, it's simple - back to my original question:
The composition & the music for these two are the same: one register for that will Peter Sprague & me as co-writer for the lyrics.
Seems it should be as simple as that - with the French lyrics version being the derivative work - per what's been explained in this thread. The rest are all WFH.
Thanks.

[funsongs]

"The French Connection" - that is, if I get help releasing either-or-both of these on radio in Paris - the co-writer suggests I copyright the English version as well.
I could use some directions/instructions - HOW TO DO THAT?



In advance: thank you.

Friendly reminder... this thread is about THE TWO Gypsy/Jazz renderings.

[RPaul]

Friendly reminder... this thread is about THE TWO Gypsy/Jazz renderings.

The "renderings" (i.e. recordings) are separate from the songs (i.e. music and lyrics). From the song copyright perspective, it really doesn't matter whether you're talking gypsy jazz versions, ska versions, or K-pop versions.

As for the song copyright is really between your cowriters and you in terms of which parts belong to whom, for example, if the musical composition was the original copyright, and the version with English lyrics is a derivative. And, if the music-only version was the original copyright, and the English version was a derivative of that, then is the French version a derivative of the English derivative or the original music-only composition?

As for the recording copyrights, they could have totally different owners than the song copyrights, such as in the case of a cover song where the cover artist (or their record company) would own the recording copyright but would have no claim to the song copyright.

In my personal experience, specifically on the song front, the original full song -- i.e. music and lyrics -- would be the original copyright, independent of whether the song was written lyrics first or music first (in the case of one sending their part to the other, as opposed to working things back and forth). But it doesn't necessarily have to be that way -- it just depends on the agreement between the cowriters.

This is where the reminder of, "nothing said here should be construed as legal advice," bears repeating.