How To Minimize Mechanical Instrument Noise

[mazz]

Alan,More thoughts: the clicks and noises on the sax are high frequency noises for the most part. Since condenser mics are known for their great high frequency response, your mics are probably faithfully reproducing those noises in all their glory. I would take the suggestion to mic closer to the bell seriously. In fact, even below the bell would be good. The sound of the sax would be louder there than the sound of the keys clicking.I think you'll like the sound of the Fat Head on the sax. Mazz

[stoney]

Sept 16, 2008, 7:57am, mazz wrote:Alan,More thoughts: the clicks and noises on the sax are high frequency noises for the most part. Since condenser mics are known for their great high frequency response, your mics are probably faithfully reproducing those noises in all their glory. I would take the suggestion to mic closer to the bell seriously. In fact, even below the bell would be good. The sound of the sax would be louder there than the sound of the keys clicking.I think you'll like the sound of the Fat Head on the sax. MazzYou should try Mazz' suggestion I think it will turn out really well. To add to his idea; after you have recorded why not apply some surgical EQ? A paragraphic EQ like waves Q10 Paragraphic Equalizer (not that you need all 10 bands) would be perfect. These kind of EQ's are great because it will really let you find the offending frequencies and notch it out without killing your recorded material.I think if you try a combination of the above you you will really crack it.

[backtalkunlimited]

REPLY TO STONEY: Well, I presently have software-based paragraphic EQ capability (i. e., combined graphic & parametric EQ), and, in the past, I have tried to apply EQ selectively to remove, or at least to minimize, the clicks and slaps. However, some of the bari sax's overtones fall in the same audio-spectral region as the noise; thus, even careful, selective application of EQ concomitantly affects the saxophone's sound quality and never for the better (this must be an example of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics at work!).I plan to apply the advice that I've received from Mazz and from the other nice folks who have responded to this thread. Also, I'd like to apply some of the mic-strategies that I've picked up while perusing the 84-page document referred to above.Eventually, I plan to write again to let y'all know how it turns out in the hope that others might benefit from whatever positive experience I might be able to gain. Meanwhile, we persevere.Thanks to all once again for kind assistance!-Alan (backtalkunlimited)

[silvercord]

Mazz! look what you did to me:(im trying to order the fat head now, thanks to you:)i dont even own a brass instrument..nor have i recorded one..but it just looks so cool:(i have you to thank!;Ppeacemic maniageoff

[matthoggard]

I just got couple of Sennheiser e935's. Best damn dynamic mic Ive ever used. Has tons of presence and is crystal clear with loads of headroom. I used to be a die hard sm58 and 57 guy but am totally sold on these senn's. Bout 170 bucks new.Side note: I used to record some bass with a jazz band and the engineers always used dynamic mics for up close on the brass and reed instruments.M~

[mojobone]

Fergot. Shure SM7B -maybe the ultimate dynamic for tenor, bari and trombone. Good on Sousaphone, too.

[backtalkunlimited]

As part of their online advertising program, B&H Photo Video publishes how-to articles that deal broadly with audio- and video-related topics. An interesting article appeared in this week's B&H e-mail newsletter; the article, written by Ken Hamberg, is entitled "Recording Brass and Woodwinds At Home". Microphone placement is dealt with at length in this article, instrument by instrument.Potentially interested forum participants are encouraged to consult the article for further information at the following URL:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/find/news ... Disclaimer: No, I ain't an agent for B&H in disguise - just thought some folks might find the information contained in this article to be helpful, as I did.Enjoy.-Alan (backtalkunlimited)

[milfus]

eya back talk, sounds like a mic placement ordeal, what you can try, and has worked for me, esspescially with brass, is when you set you mic up to capture the sound, use a figure 8 pattern, and have the deaf side at the floor and towards the toggles, with one of the sides right at where the sound is eminating from, the deaf side of a figure 8 is even more dead than the back of most mics, I have found that with a little extra placing time, you can still get the full tone you want, and seriously reduce/eliminate the mechanicals, I use this method is MUCH more extreme situations and it works rather nice in those.hope that helps

[backtalkunlimited]

Well, as with most things in life, development of an acceptable solution to the noise-minimization problem required a combination of factors: (i) use of dynamic rather than condenser microphone to minimize capture of high-frequency extraneous noise and (ii) appropriate microphone placement, per milfus' (and others') suggestions. After lotsa reading plus trial-and-error (sounds much better to refer to this as "successful application of a suitably-designed empirical approach"), I obtained satisfactory results by using my ElectroVoice N/D 767a dynamic microphone placed at the bari sax's bell-level, pointing downward, at a distance of ca. 1 meter from the bell of the saxophone.Subsequently, this strategy was employed to produce an arrangement that includes two bari sax tracks. If one listens closely to the individual raw saxophone tracks, one can still hear some clicks and thumps, but their intensity has been greatly reduced relative to that which I encountered routinely when using my Audio Technica AT2020 condenser microphone. When combined with drum and bass, these extraneous sounds really are not noticeable. Thus, it no longer is necessary to apply "selective EQ" to minimize noise, and the full-throated bari sax sound is thereby preserved in all its glory.Potentially interested Forum participants may audition the results, which have been posted (in low fidelity, unfortunately) on the following URL: http://www.revostock.com/FileCloseupAud ... 3913Please note that I have NOT applied EQ to any of the tracks on that recording. What you hear is what I got (WYHIWIG).Thanks to all for helpful suggestions.-Alan (backtalk unlimited)* * *

[flood]

Sept 16, 2008, 7:03am, backtalkunlimited wrote:One would think one was listening to a musical wrestling match. If I could manage to make these sounds fit the rhythm of the music, perhaps I could pass them off as "percussion".This cracked me up something terrible! LOL! Cage Match O Brass Death!