I have decided the best way to give back is this thread

[Cat Herder]

I just took a few moments to glance back through these comments. Either I am drinking too much, of I am fluent in Typonese. Maybe both! I think I need to Seize The Keyboard.

[Hookjaw Brown]

A Question for Mr. Herder!

Michael sent a post out quoting from Robin Fredericks new book in regards to 'a las' and 'emotional cues' that Music Supervisors use to categorize the 1000's of songs in their libraries.

Question is: Do you put your own labels on all the submissions you receive, in order to break them into categories? Do you rely on the song title for clues to the song?

(sorry - that is two questions!)

[Cat Herder]

La Hook,

Good question. Our current spreadsheet for collection of this important information is 62 columns wide and allows for up to six co-writers. Our latest submission is 9,071 rows deep. It contains every bit of data you can think of about that cue. Our clients us Soundminer to embed that data into every cue and stem file, and it even prints out a cue sheet. There is no such thing as too much data. Our composers may disagree because they have to fill this information in. All information like "a la", mood and other emotional factors, tempos, durations, PROs, are embedded

I cannot say enough about how important titles are. Think like an editor (I use Editor, Music Supervisor and Producer all under the name; editor) if you are looking for a cue you are always likely to listen to the titles that perk your interest first. For example: If I have a really sad heart breaking scene, which title are you likely to listen to first: “My Whole Life Is Over”, or “Sunday Night”? That is pretty easy to guess. Now multiply that by the 30 to 100 returns he got from his search engine. What are the chances that “Sunday Night” will even get auditioned? Much less chosen. If Robin Fredericks said it in her book, I would recommend listening. I keep a copy on my desk.

I hope this helps
Carpe Diem

[Cat Herder]

sorry about having to edit the comment above. Somehow the first sentence had gotten chopped in half.

[Hookjaw Brown]

Wow........good answer. Very informative. Then the songwriter's onus is to really get a descriptive title, that catches the eye. Though I can't imagine the number of duplicate titles.

Thank you for the bits and pieces of the nitty gritty, down and dirty, nuts and bolts type of information.

[matto]

A Question for Mr. Herder!

Michael sent a post out quoting from Robin Fredericks new book in regards to 'a las' and 'emotional cues' that Music Supervisors use to categorize the 1000's of songs in their libraries.

Question is: Do you put your own labels on all the submissions you receive, in order to break them into categories? Do you rely on the song title for clues to the song?

(sorry - that is two questions!)

Hook,

I would agree with everything in the quote from Robin's book, except that you have to remember she's talking about a music supervisor's personal music catalog. They build this personal catalog from many different sources (often artists they know) and therefore have to come up with their own system of cataloguing it.
It's not supplied to them in catalog form.

When you write for a music library, you are often asked for specific styles and if not, you are expected to tell them what the style is when you submit a demo. If accepted you are usually required to provide additional data with your master submission (at least key, tempo, mood etc, in some cases it's much more extensive). Some libraries prefer to add some of that data (such as keywords) on their end.
All that combined data is then available to the client (i.e. supervisor or editor) which can make it much easier to find the necessary songs/cues.

So, unlike a music supervisor, a music library owner doesn't typically get songs "blind" and then has to figure out what style it is. They'll usually get at least some kind of description: "Here's an uptempo female pop country song a la Taylor Swift". And assuming they are working with people who know what they're doing those descriptions will typically be fairly accurate.

I think part of what Robin is saying is, if you think a little more along these lines as an indie artist submitting to music supervisors, both when you title your songs, select which ones you want to submit, and then while putting together the actual submission, you can make a supervisor's job much easier and therefore improve your chances of having your songs picked.

HTH,

matto

[davedwards]

Much earlier in this thread, Cat Herder said in reference to other uses of your music:

It really depends on the agreements you have , not so much with iTunes, but, for CD Baby for example, they may have some licensing options in their agreement. You have to be careful and follow the 3 main rules of dealing with a library, Disclose, Disclose, Disclose. The purest answer is that each library will have a different set of rules, but do not let that discourage you from placing your music in places like iTunes. I my particular case your iTunes placement would not affect my decission to sign your cue.

Here's my question: I've just been approached about a deal for one of my songs with a well-know exclusive library (not Cat Herder's). The version they're interested in is a simple trio arrangement. I was just about to use my full arrangement of the same song on a self-produced CD, making it available for download on iTunes and other online sources. I told the contact at the library about my plans, and he seemed to be okay with that use of it. I suggested possibly retitling one as an option. Am I asking for trouble? Is that the best solution here, or is there something better? This is my first offer, and I don't want to screw things up. I welcome any advice.

[Cat Herder]

Dave, From the standpoint of the industry trend, retitling is really only a problem when it applies to placing the same cue under multiple titles for the purpose of licensing and broadcasts. To retitle for digital download or uses where that use is purly for the personal entertainment of the purchaser is not the problem. That said, you need to do exactly what you have done, and that is to ask the library what their policy is.

For example: Our clients retain copyright. To release a cue under a different title can be a problem. If our client chose to, they could claim copyright violation. At one client, no external use is accepted under any circumstance. In the other case you could release under the original title only. The latter has become our contractual policy with composers (we have a different contract for our original client). So we allow sale to the consumer market, but not under seperate title.

In this question, as well as the last, what we do is different than many libraries (we actually do not consider our company a library). Whether it is metadata, exclusivity, delivery formats, or cue restrictions almost every library does something different than any other library you put side by side with it. We even handle things differently between our client libraries as you saw above. So my answers are sometimes not the only true answer. The most important thing you take away from this is the general idea, and the understanding as to what libraries may expect. Knowing what to ask is as critical as the the answer you get, but you must ask.

I hope this helps
Carpe Diem

[davedwards]

Dave, From the standpoint of the industry trend, retitling is really only a problem when it applies to placing the same cue under multiple titles for the purpose of licensing and broadcasts. To retitle for digital download or uses where that use is purly for the personal entertainment of the purchaser is not the problem. That said, you need to do exactly what you have done, and that is to ask the library what their policy is. ...

... Knowing what to ask is as critical as the the answer you get, but you must ask.

Thank you for the fast and detailed response. It was invaluable in helping me figure out how to proceed in this case. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

[Casey H]

Dave, From the standpoint of the industry trend, retitling is really only a problem when it applies to placing the same cue under multiple titles for the purpose of licensing and broadcasts. To retitle for digital download or uses where that use is purly for the personal entertainment of the purchaser is not the problem. That said, you need to do exactly what you have done, and that is to ask the library what their policy is.

Just to emphasize and expand on what Cat said here, it's very important to understand the contracts you sign before hand. For example, some exclusive music library contracts are exclusive only to film/TV (e.g. sync with video), some are exclusive only as far as other music libraries, and MOST IMPORTANT in THIS discussion-- some are actually the same as single song publishing contracts. In that last case, you've assigned the copyright to the publisher who has control over ALL aspects of marketing your tracks. That would include film/TV as well as pure audio forms such as CD sales and downloads. So be careful not to assume that just because it's an exclusive contract with a music LIBRARY or FILM/TV ORIENTED PUBLISHER, you can re-title and sell downloads on iTunes.

Although checking with the library/publisher is always a good idea, it's very important to understand everything before you enter a contract. A consultation with a qualified music attorney can often be well worth the money.

Best wishes for a Happy New Year,
Casey