Is this beat 'lifeless'?

[JohnnyBravo]

Just got this track returned and I'm gutted. Despite scoring me solid 7s throughout, this song was described by the listener as a 'lifeless beat' and returned:

https://soundcloud.com/1swallowsummer/next-to-the-edge

Would love your opinions? I thought I created lots of momentum & build & release, I don't get how it could be described as lifeless.

Its not like I can't take a return, I get plenty, but I really thought I had a chance with this.

Thanks

[andygabrys]

Hey John,

nice attempt for a first go. Sounds like this is quite different from the stuff on your profile.

keep in mind 7 is relative. could be higher or lower depending on the reviewer - its qualitative rather than quantitative. And they review based on what they were hoping to hear. So what sounds
lifeless" just might not have the development that they were hoping to hear along the track.

In the future, it would help to copy and paste the listing for which you submitted this song for into your post. That helps everyone answer your question more directly considering what it was pitched for. A lifeless beat for one pitch might not make it, but the same thing for another might do.

just in a quick listen, there are a couple things you may consider:

hi-hat sounds borderline distorted with a lot of low end (not typical of the genre IMO)
kick drum is panned fairly far to the left (not typical of any popular genre these days)
sounded like a few spots are clipping on the left side.

these things might not be as important in one genre as the next, but Hip Hop and R&B tends to be dominated by pretty slick production IMO.

[Piewackit1]

I think it's a great first attempt at this genre but I am forced to agree with Taxi on the drums. They seem flat to me and lack energy in places.

I don't write this genre of music, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I feel production is really important for this style of music. The drums could have more depth and dimension..deeper lows, brighter snare hits..etc.

[JohnnyBravo]

Thanks Andy & Piewackit for the feedback. Usually I am meticulous about production but I didn't think of bass extension & extra ambience because I wanted to keep the track clean. I figure the sound editor can always add bass extension and more ambience, but its harder to remove them?

Will take a look at those mixing issues Andy raised. The listener also mentioned some distortion, which floored me because I couldn't hear/see any, but since you hear it as well I better see what's up.

I pasted the listing below:
-------------------------------------
RAP/HIP HOP INSTRUMENTALS in the style Lil' Wayne, Kid Cudi, Wale, Childish Gambino, etc., are needed by a Video Production Company that focuses on skating, surfing, snowboarding and BMX Sports Videos and TV Documentaries. They need original, energetic Instrumentals that have a CONTEMPORARY feel, similar to the referenced artists. But, as always, do not rip them off in any way, shape, or form! Use them only as a reference for tempo, texture, and vibe. They're NOT looking for lifeless beats for this pitch. Keep them interesting and compelling throughout the entire track! ALL Tempos are OK as long as your Instrumentals have lots of ENERGY and MOMENTUM. No samples of other artists' material or "leased beats" please!!! Broadcast quality is needed (excellent home recordings are fine). You must own or control 100% of your composition and master recording. Please submit one to three songs online or per CD. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Tuesday, May 14, 2013. TAXI #S130514HI

[Lazyknife]

I think the beat on it self is cool, but I either don't write in this genre. It sounds to me the beat was programmed with the pencil tool. You can do this, but you want to give it a more human feel afterwards with quantise. Use randomise and/or shuffle to do this. I think this will give the track more life.
Just my 2c's!

[Salty]

John-

I don't do this genre much- BUT-
think the reason for the comment about the beat has to do with the BASS. Think you are missing the hook-up between the bass and drums, which would give you the pocket and the feeling of drive/momentum.


Salty

[JohnnyBravo]

Salty, Lazyknife, thanks also for your feedback. After more research I've worked out that the word 'beat' refers to the track in general! (yes there is a hip-hop culture slang). So a 'lifeless beat' means the whole track is seen as lifeless.

I don't think my track is a perfect 10, but I don't agree that the whole thing can be written off as lifeless.

Re quantizing etc - for electronica I usually more loops than my own programming. Most loops are pretty square in this genre. I haven't programmed a dubstep track yet but it may be that that genre allows for a bit more flexibility.

[ochaim]

I find a lot of composers who take their first stabs at a hip hop beat tend to simplify the process of making a melody that "works" and is in the vein of what gives hip hop its attitude.

I'm not saying you meant to dumb down the melody or arrangement, but it kind of sounds like it. I can imagine someone not really familiar with hip hop beats listening to lil' wayne and wale, and get a sense that it's supposed to be simple, one-finger keyboardist type of melody. It can be. But there are subtle nuances to the sounds and phrases that create the attitude (the kids call this swagger).

Listening as I type....

The Kick: it sounds really back in the mix, and not very punchy. that needs to be in your face more. An acoustic kick with a 808 kick or 909 layered under it to give it the right bottom is a good start. It's been a technique used in hip hop production since the late 80's and still a staple. Is it panned to one side slightly?

The snare/clap sounds sound useable.

The rolling hi hat parts are a bit overbearing, usually a lighter hi hat sound is used, again, typically the 808 closed hihat.

The bass sound, isn't really right for the genre. The bass used sounds almost like a throwback to west coast hip hop in the 80's (too short). Not really used in contemporary hip hop. What you will find people using for bass are tuned 808 kicks that have a long decay and a short attack. Just for point of reference.

The synth patches you chose, could work, it's just the phrasing and arrangement that make it kind of awkward from a hip hop perspective.

The chord progression modulation you use is kinda weird.

The drum pattern at 0:21 doesn't work for hip hop. The drum pattern at 0:41 is more of a standard pattern for hip hop.

One part I think you got right is the snare roll at 0:10.

Overall it's not a bad piece, just not for a hip hop listing. I can see it doing better in a "dark, dramatic" sort of listing maybe.

[LittleRedChurch]

Ochaim, said it.

Though I know next to nothing about mixing/production, I do kinda know about progressions. This, to me starts with such great potential but you soon realize its following a progression that's a tad awkward. Your second verse or chorus goes up a semi tone, right? The verse went down a semitone? to my ears its not following the conventions of song writing there. There has to be a basic homage paid to a understandable, workable chord progression/melody... I would think the rule applies to all music.

I really loved that opening but to me rest of it needs developing.

Good luck
Graham

[JohnnyBravo]

Thanks ochaim & Graham - points taken. Ochaim, I especially appreciate the detailed feedback, its clear you know this genre and I must defer. I appreciate the point that the track may be out of genre the listener didn't say that but I did try to bring some non-Hip Hop elements in to make it stand out a little. A mistake maybe.

I have a lot on my hands so I may leave this & send it as-is to a music library. If another similar listing comes up, and they haven't used it, I'll do my best to implement those suggestions.