Live Orchestra vs. Midi

[ernstinen]

I thought you guys would be interested in comparing a Midi demo of an orchestral piece of mine, "Elegy," with a recent recording by the Czech Philharmonic.The Czech CD has been released on the ERM label, but since it has sold thousands of copies and I'm now rich , I thought it was time for this comparo!Check them out at:http://www.box.net/shared/1icnu7dtsbThe Midi version was done well over 2 years ago, so the libraries are not state-of-the-art. But besides the human emotion and wonderful playing by the orchestra, both versions are surprisingly similar! Hope you enjoy the comparo!Ern

[davewalton]

Quote:I thought you guys would be interested in comparing a Midi demo of an orchestral piece of mine, "Elegy," with a recent recording by the Czech Philharmonic.The Czech CD has been released on the ERM label, but since it has sold thousands of copies and I'm now rich , I thought it was time for this comparo!Check them out at:http://www.box.net/shared/1icnu7dtsbThe Midi version was done well over 2 years ago, so the libraries are not state-of-the-art. But besides the human emotion and wonderful playing by the orchestra, both versions are surprisingly similar! Hope you enjoy the comparo!Ern That was cool! I don't know about the rest of these neanderthals but I thought that was fascinating. Immediately the main difference was just that of expression. The orchestral expression was smooth and had a wide dynamic range and the midi version was just less smooth and the dynamic range wasn't as wide. I'd bet $100 that now with two more years under your belt and maybe a nicer collection of orchestral samples, that the midi version would be even more convincing if you were doing it today.Of course by itself the midi version would have sounded fine and it still does. Sitting next to the orchestral version though, it kind of illustrates how subtle we (the midi orchestrators) have to be with our expression. Excellent post. Dave

[sgs4u]

Quote:comparing a Midi demo of an orchestral piece of mine, "Elegy," with a recent recording by the Czech Philharmonic.Check them out at:http://www.box.net/shared/1icnu7dtsbErn Ern, Thanks so much for showing that example. What a fabulous piece of music, and great lesson in orchestrating. Especially like Dave said, about the dynamics. I've been noticing how the Czech orchestra has various instruments each starting their notes, milliseconds apart. It creates such a different sound to swells as they build. Not at all the same as calling up some lame patch on my synth and pressing a key. It must have been quite a deep feeling of satisfaction when you finally heard the real orchestra's version, (at least it would be for me). How did they end of using/hearing about your composition? Were you present for the recording, and/or did you get to participate / trade 4's with the conductor? And as a fellow neanderthal like Dave, I was emotionally moved to press play, not once, not twice, but 3 times. Yes, I listened all the way through, 3 times. - that never happens to me, what have you done to me with this music? Is there some kind of subliminal message in your music, and how did you get the real orchestra to record it too? I feel like throwing away my song demos, to refocus on writing for orchestras. So please, warn me before you post anything wonderful like that again. It has a detriMENTAL effect on my psyche. hehe

[ernstinen]

Thanks for your responses, Dave & Steve! I'm glad the emotion of the piece came through. I wrote it out of respect for my departed relatives that I spent my summers with in N. Minnesota, so it DID come from a place of deep emotion.Quote:It must have been quite a deep feeling of satisfaction when you finally heard the real orchestra's version, (at least it would be for me). How did they end of using/hearing about your composition? Were you present for the recording, and/or did you get to participate / trade 4's with the conductor? Yeah, it's really cool to hear a real professional orchestral recording of your work. It's the second time --- Somehow, a few years ago, I got a "Call For Scores" email from the record company. They chose a piece of mine, "Vermilion River," and it was recorded by the Bulgarian Philharmonic. Unfortunately, the orchestra kinda sucked. But I thought I'd enter the competition one more time, and had a piece chosen AGAIN out of 100's of entries. Amazing.This time, they used the Kiev Philharmonic and the Czech Philharmonic, both really hi-quality orchestras.No, I wasn't there for the recording session. I'd sure like to jam with them, though! BTW, the series of recordings is entitled "Masterworks of the New Era." "Elegy" is on Vol. 10. They're going to keep cranking them out as long as they sell CDs, I'm sure!

[ernstinen]

Quote:Yeah Ern, beautiful stuff! For me there is just no comparison between the MIDI version and the orchestra. That is no slam on your MIDI chops which are very very good, but a group of excellent players is still the best way to go if you're fortunate enough to get your music played by them. (I even heard the flute player take a breath.) The emotions come through and the orchestra brought it out very expressively. Congratulations on this recording. Your music sounds great. What a thrill it must be to hear your music played by an orchestra. Very inspiring!!MazzThanks, Mazz! Yea, it was cool to hear human beings interpret the music.Speaking of "taking breaths," I have a "breath" sample that I created on my old Emu 6400 (just me and my mic --- no "heavy" breathing! ) I just may add a few to a new piece I'm finishing!Ern

[mazz]

I like the breath idea. When I listen to classical music on phones, occasionally you can hear the players turning the pages and other little room noises which, IMO adds to the vibe of the recording, if one can use "vibe" in the context of classical music I have the complete Beethoven string quartets by Guarnei Quartet and you can hear those cats breathing with the phrasing. I happen to like that, some may find it distracting. It's not as distracting as Keith Jarrett "singing", grunting and groaning! Keep up the good work!Mazz

[ernstinen]

Thanks for your kind comments guys!Quote:Amazing, Ern.You were supposed to teach me how to do that.I'm working on an electric guitar concerto --- better start woodshedding, Drew! Ern

[ncc1701]

I just got around to listening to this. So nice!To my ear as a woodwind player, MIDI's still got a ways to go as far as being able to capture the articulations and phrasing of wind instruments, particularly the oboe and flute.But your MIDI strings are quite fabulous. And it's so encouraging that someone is actually making some income off classical pieces! It makes me want to shelve all my attempts at cracking the pop/rock market and write the next great American symphony.Oh wait - you probably already have. Kathleen

[rfrey]

Ern,This is fantastic! I have just started to open the door to orchestral arrangements and am excited and frightened by it. I submitted one of my pieces to a listing and it was rejected due to production (yeah, I faked an orchestra sorry. So I was motivated to dig into this further and see if I can fix it. Can you give any advice as far as resources (books, Web sites, etc) for someone who is just digging into doing orchestral compositions using a DAW? I'm a Cakewalk Sonar user myself. Thanks for the inspiration. Your music is amazing!Rich

[davewalton]

Quote:Ern,This is fantastic! I have just started to open the door to orchestral arrangements and am excited and frightened by it. I submitted one of my pieces to a listing and it was rejected due to production (yeah, I faked an orchestra sorry. So I was motivated to dig into this further and see if I can fix it. Can you give any advice as far as resources (books, Web sites, etc) for someone who is just digging into doing orchestral compositions using a DAW? I'm a Cakewalk Sonar user myself. Thanks for the inspiration. Your music is amazing!RichThe concept of being able to do convincing orchestral tracks from one's living room is kind of frighteningly exciting. Just some quick thoughts in general. First and most important, I think, is to make sure you have a quality orchestral virtual instrument package. There's only so much you can do with Garritan Personal Orchestra or even EWQL Silver, although Silver can take anyone pretty far. I started with Silver and I did a lot with it. For a small package with limited articulations, it sounds great.I don't know about the other packages so those that use those should chime in. For this moment in time, I've settled on EWQL Gold and also added the Gold Expanded package. It's now called "The Gold Bundle" and at $495, it's one of the best bangs for the buck. With something similar in quality to The Gold Bundle, then it's just a matter of getting used to deciding which articulation(s) to use for various things. I'm not an "orchestra guy" so I had to do a little experimentation as I figured out things that other composers already knew... when to use martele in the strings or even what a French Horn rip was.I also use Sonar, so after the items above, the last thing was to draw my expression graphs in the various tracks so that the "orchestra" and various sections had life and breath. Well, sort of.That's the 30,000 foot overview. Please feel free to ask about specifics. I had several good people take the time to answer my questions on this issue only a couple of years ago and I learned a lot, but only because I didn't mind asking. Dave