Metal Return

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geo
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Re: Metal Return

Post by geo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:52 am

Apr 30, 2008, 3:26am, windowman wrote:Apr 29, 2008, 7:48pm, matto wrote:Hey Dan, just as a little piece of advice, this is the type of comment best kept to yourself and off a public forum...It's a return for one of your many songs for one among many opportunities...big deal. You've got tons more songs and there will be tons more listings.On the other hand you never know who's gonna read these forums...FYI Taxi does allow people who are not regular Taxi screeners to critique songs, as long as they are willing to undergo the normal Taxi screener training.I read this earlier & have since noticed that Dan deleted his comment. Probably good advice there Matto. I'm curious though Matto... Well, about a few things. We all know that you're very successful through TAXI & your other endeavors in the music biz, and good for you. I've punched in your name on the net & watched your YouTube videos about TAXI. If I had the kind of success that you have had through TAXI, I'd tread lightly too. I know you're very knowledgeable about the music business, at least this part. I do my homework. I get it, I really do. My questions & comments are these.......I read Dan's comment about the Company's prez/rep/whatever & I didn't find it to be demeaning in any way. I read it before you posted your comment. Maybe if I was the rep at the company, I'd be a little slighted at best, but I wouldn't do a witch hunt on the guy. (Not to mention he should be a METAL guy... Get some balls.) If people that work at big A&R jobs have enough time on their hands to be searching the net for personal attacks, they're probably not spending as much time on their job as they should. And that's a disservice to their clients. And they probably wouldn't be there long enough for it to matter. The paranoia here on these boards is just a reminder of what kind of world we're living in. Everyone is terrified to speak their mind. But, I'll tell you this much, most people are thinking it & talking about it with people they trust. I usually don't comment on someone's return if the song was ridiculous because I don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. But I want to. I want to tell them "Piss off, get out of this business. Go back to your day gig where you've made more than I'll ever make & keep your hobby to yourself." But here's the thing Matto. I HATE this type of music. F***ing hate it. But Dan nailed it. He f***ing nailed it. There's a lot of music I don't like, but I always do my best to understand it & take from it the best parts. This is how new things are created Matto.So my questions to you are these-Why didn't you comment on the song & the fact that Dan nailed it & should have been forwarded? Why are you here just to give the TAXI PC answer? Can't you see that there is something wrong here? I haven't been here that long, but I've never seen you question the TAXI integrity. I understand that this listing was not listened to by TAXI. So before you go there answer me/us this... Why doesn't TAXI do a better job with the listings? The listing was WRONG. Why doesn't TAXI serve its customers better when it comes to specifics on listings? Why don't they demand the company to be more specific or exact. "WE want 'Brown Eyed Girl' but with different lyrics?" I've seen a lot of listings on these forums where folks are just plain confused, including the senior members. Some of these listings are like playing the lottery, which I don't want to do.I'm not trying to be a jerk here Matto, but the fact that you make a lot of $$$$ from TAXI doesn't make you a more deserving member here than anyone else.With all doo doo doo respect WadeI humbly agree, with all due respect.... especially the song comments... and the listings comments..... Geo

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Re: Metal Return

Post by Casey H » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:13 am

I admit it's confusing (REVIEW CORNER does say if you hate a review post it here), but if someone is really scratching their head on a review, instead of posting here it's best to contact taxi. I don't know if Dan did that, but of course that's up to him. I've seen at times when there is an UNUSUAL situation, they've been very willing to take a second look. They are human. I've seen where they reversed their decision and where they haven't (more often because the return WAS justified). So, if Dan is not complaining here- he either let it go or contacted taxi.I wouldn't comment on the song because I don't feel qualified when it comes to metal. Maybe matto felt the same way.If you think taxi is not doing a good job with the listings, contact them directly. I will say that "demanding" things from the listing parties is quite hard. A&R folks have no shortage of songs coming at them and if someone is too demanding, they will just go elsewhere. Truth is, sometimes they aren't all that great at describing what they want.Regarding vague listings... A few months back I was pitching to a music supervisor for a major film. He wanted songs that sounded like they would be coming out of a jukebox in the 70's/80's, and specifically he asked for Classic Rock. Now go look up the definition of Classic Rock. It covers just about everything that isn't current. When I asked if he could help narrow down the styles or "a la's" he couldn't. So here is the music supervisor for a major film not being able to be less vague. If industry folks can't always describe what they want, how can taxi? They work with what they are given.I'm not saying taxi is perfect. Of course, sometimes a screener goofs (not as often as people think). But at least you can give them a call and discuss any issues. If they can't make you feel they are worth the money, they give refunds.BTW, if you think I'm just rah-rah taxi and always defend them, check out this thread:http://taxi.proboards27.com/index.cgi?a ... 98&page=1I was scratching my head regarding the returns.Casey

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Re: Metal Return

Post by geo » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:37 am

Ditto on the contact Taxi..... GeoCasey much prefer this avatar, nice.

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Re: Metal Return

Post by wodinlord » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:56 am

I have produced and engineered a slew of Death/Speed/Hardcore/fill-in-the-blank metal bands over the years. I specialized in it for years. Nobody cares, but that is my background for saying the following. I would have to agree with some of the previous posters and the reviewer. Even this genre needs a hook, although it is much different from the hook of a pop or rock song. There still has to be something memorable (musically, rhythmically, or lyrically) that brings the song to mind later. That makes you want to hear it again. There is no specific rule to live by, you just know it when you hear it. Also, I would bet that the end client is after the more accessible end of the spectrum. You have captured the style mostly, but not the sound. The guitar work is great, but the overall mix is not quite right. The drums are small sounding, no matter who played the original loop. It is not in your face enough and too effected. Hard and bare is more often the norm for most of this type of music. (there are always exceptions) Beyond that, if the client is listening to the listings himself, it is a matter of what he likes or thinks fits his purposes. The reviewer was just passing along what he got from the client. Just keep at it! The next dude may love it. But maybe try a harder, drier, more balanced mix.Wodinlord
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Re: Metal Return

Post by daniel481 » Wed Apr 30, 2008 9:05 am

I only have a second, but I just wanted to say thanks for the tips wodinlord. I have actually had this forwarded for Death Metal before, but I appreciate your comments and I'll take them into account. The main thing that really struck me as funny with the review was saying that it was too hard to understand the vocals...it just seems like a lot of times with Death Metal, that's kind of the point On another note, I'm definitely not a Death Metal expert, so I'm sure I have a lot to learn!

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Re: Metal Return

Post by matto » Thu May 01, 2008 5:17 am

And this remarkable attitude, my dear Dan, is exactly why you are going to go far in this business! To Wade:I gave Dan the advice I gave him because I know him personally and feel I have a pretty good understanding about what his goals are. I didn't think his comment was in line with those goals.Your goals may be different so what I said may not apply to you.I should probably have used a PM so as not to open myself to a bunch of stray flak. My bad.I didn't comment on Dan's song because I know zilch about Death Metal, and as a general rule, tend to keep my uneducated opinions to myself.Why doesn't Taxi "demand" the listings be more specific? Because then there would be no Taxi, and no opportunities. What exactly do you think would happen if Taxi told this guy: "Your listing is WRONG and you don't have a clue about what Death Metal is"? Or if they demanded people nail down EXACTLY what they are looking for (when most of the time they don't even KNOW)?The obvious answer is Taxi's reputation would go in the dumpster and the industry would stop running listings. I know it's far from an ideal situation, but Taxi has to deal with the real world music industry, not some utopian one in which every decision maker is a graduate of Berklee or Juillard (of course then you'd probably complain about the industry being run by a bunch of stuck-up, out-of-touch snobs )In my opinion, the best thing Taxi can do for its members is to provide us with the largest number and widest range of opportunities. To do so, they have to attempt to extract as much information out of the listing partiesas possible, without harassing or insulting them. I'm sure they don't always hit that sweet spot perfectly but from what I've seen they sure try.The reason you don't see me question Taxi's integrity, Wade, is because after over 11 years as a Taxi member, there is no question in my mind about Taxi's integrity. I may disagree with certain reviews or certain actions from time to time, but I believe 100% in Taxi's integrity. This is why I'm still a member. And just in case you're wondering, yeah I'm a paying member and all my submissions get screened just the way yours do...and I do get returns, believe me.So I'm not sure where you get the idea that I think I'm a more deserving member than others...for one thing, if I did I don't think I'd be spending a considerable amount of my time on this forum, giving my peers advice on how to better compete against me... matto

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Re: Metal Return

Post by allends » Thu May 01, 2008 6:14 am

Apr 30, 2008, 3:26am, windowman wrote:answer me/us this... Why doesn't TAXI do a better job with the listings? The listing was WRONG. Why doesn't TAXI serve its customers better when it comes to specifics on listings?All in favor of a submission fee increase (say: $20.00 a pop) , raise your hand! NOT! -Allen(Forgive me, I couldn't resist)

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Re: Metal Return

Post by Casey H » Thu May 01, 2008 8:55 am

May 1, 2008, 8:17am, matto wrote:Why doesn't Taxi "demand" the listings be more specific? Because then there would be no Taxi, and no opportunities. What exactly do you think would happen if Taxi told this guy: "Your listing is WRONG and you don't have a clue about what Death Metal is"? Or if they demanded people nail down EXACTLY what they are looking for (when most of the time they don't even KNOW)?The obvious answer is Taxi's reputation would go in the dumpster and the industry would stop running listings. I know it's far from an ideal situation, but Taxi has to deal with the real world music industry, not some utopian one in which every decision maker is a graduate of Berklee or Juillard (of course then you'd probably complain about the industry being run by a bunch of stuck-up, out-of-touch snobs )mattoWindowmanI hope what you gained from matto's and my post is a perspective on how things are in the real world, independent of taxi. People really don't always know what they want. I had one publisher say to me, "I'll know it when I hear it".OK, here's what might be a silly comparison. As a teenager we all think our parent's don't know squat and we know it all. Later on, we grow up, become parents ourselves and all of a sudden we "get it" regarding our own parents. Here comes the analogy... If you try setting up a business on the "other side" where YOU are the one hustling for song leads and taking submissions, suddenly a light bulb goes off and you realize those other folks weren't really so stupid.HTH FWIW (and any other applicable acronyms) Casey

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Re: Metal Return

Post by ibanez468 » Thu May 01, 2008 10:29 am

May 1, 2008, 11:55am, hurowitz wrote:I had one publisher say to me, "I'll know it when I hear it".Not takin' anybody's side one way or the other here, I understand all points of view, but as crazy as it sounds, I actually understand the publisher when he/she says "I'll know it when I hear it." I can relate in a sense that when I've put that song together and I need that final big pad to set the tune off, I go through all of my sounds, and I'm always thinking "I'll know it when I hear it." I'll stumble until that sound presents itself to me. Or it could be a certain guitar sound, or certain bass sound/tone. Same with with drums. I'm real picky about my snare sound. So I can kinda' understand that type of thinkin' from a publisher's POV. He'll/She'll know it, when they hear it. You just hope yours is the right one that they're hearin'. I-468

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Re: Metal Return

Post by mer » Sun May 04, 2008 3:35 pm

Interesting dialogues here, the issue of trying to determine what is wanted has been a big part of my learning curve in scoring for live theatre productions. Lucky for me I started out working with a director who was a very fine choreographer and musician herself, and she could actually talk music with me to discuss what she wanted in terms of feel, effect on audience, purpose. And she knew my music style too, is about my age and grew up in the same musical environment. Then I worked with another director who had such a different background, was younger, and heard things SO differently than I did it was quite a struggle to communicate. I feel I have learned over and over again that no one hears music the same way a'tall. And I guess that's a good thing, because that means that there might always be an audience for a particular style... okay now I'm stating the obvious, aren't I? Time to go to sleep... --Mer

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