Mic sale... which to choose?

with industry Pro, Nick Batzdorf

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andreh
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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by andreh » Tue May 30, 2006 6:45 pm

Quote:All I meant to say is that I take his opinions with a grain of salt. You should take mine the same way.Well, I've read many things from both of you that indicate you have good heads on your shoulders (one each, I assume), so I'm interested in what both of you have to say.Quote:as I said, muffling on the side is the conventional wisdom and it's not a good thing.Why do you feel this wisdom is "not wise?" I've read, and verified through my own experiments (with my own subjective ears, of course), that first reflections coming off any surface, including the side walls and the ceiling, can mix with the sound hitting our ears directly from the speakers slightly sooner and cause phasing & cancelation.Have you found this effect not to be detrimental in your experience, or is the effect not present in your room?Respectfully,Andre
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Casey H
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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by Casey H » Wed May 31, 2006 2:06 am

I have a $20 Radio Shack mic... But it DOES have an on/off switch...Just wanted to lighten things up a bit ... Casey

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by nickbatzdorf » Wed May 31, 2006 4:59 am

I promise that you haven't verified that through your own experience, andreh, because with 100% certainty it doesn't happen. This is a whole big subject, and if you want a really good explanation, please look at my friend Dave Moulton's site: www.moultonlabs.com.The conventional wisdom is that you should stick up an imaginary mirrror and muffle anywhere you would see the speakers. You don't want sound bouncing off the walls, mingling with the "direct" sound from the speakers, and comb-filtering - so the theory goes.But then how is it that we can walk into the most reverberant room imaginable, say a gym, and localize any sound with absolute precision?Because you only get the comb-filtering/phase cancellation when the direct and reflected sounds come from the same angle. That's how our ears work.So if you have a reflective front wall behind the speakers, you have a problem - the reflected sound hits your ears from the same angle. You should muffle the front of the room, in fact that's where you soak up extra reverb in an overly live room. (Remember, we're talking about mixing; tracking is a whole 'nother thing.)But the sound from the side walls actually helps the imaging, and muffling the sides only foophs with the frequency response of the off-axis reflections by sticking a low-pass filter in the way. You'd think that the best sound is the "direct" sound from the speaker, so you should soak up everything else. In fact the speaker isn't functioning as the direct sound, it's functioning as the first reflection of the sounds in the recording. You need the room's effect for it to sound right.That's one reason I take exception to your putting me and Ethan on the same level. He doesn't agree with this, at least he didn't during one conversation. It's a fact that he's wrong. But I *really* don't want to have an argument with him, so I'd appreciate your not sending him over here for a fight, because my passing aside has already gone much farther than intended. Ethan is a good guy, and and his bass traps are very good.

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by nickbatzdorf » Wed May 31, 2006 5:04 am

(I hate that you can't edit posts without a rude indication that you've done so on the bottom!)One other point: what I said above is why I made a point of explaining that the side baffles in my room are behind the speakers. ASC espouses the old "reflection-free zone" theory, and that's not how I'm using them.

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by matto » Wed May 31, 2006 5:27 am

Quote:Because you only get the comb-filtering/phase cancellation when the direct and reflected sounds come from the same angle. That's how our ears work.Exactly...people seem to keep forgetting that the ear is considerably more sophisticated than a microphone.

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by edteja » Wed May 31, 2006 6:14 am

Casey,My egg cartons have on/off switches. I stick those suckers on everything.
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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by ernstinen » Wed May 31, 2006 7:11 am

Quote: I have a $20 Radio Shack mic... But it DOES have an on/off switch...I've got two $50 Radio Shack PZM's. They have on/off switches, too! They are great for live ensemble recording --- seriously! Just tape 'em to the walls or lay them on the floor. Dunno if they make 'em anymore --- Ern

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by zink » Wed May 31, 2006 7:17 am

Quote:I've got two $50 Radio Shack PZM's. They have on/off switches, too! They are great for live ensemble recording --- seriously! Just tape 'em to the walls or lay them on the floor. Dunno if they make 'em anymore --- Ern I heard that Radio Shack PZMs were made by Crown.

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by nomiyah » Wed May 31, 2006 9:52 am

[quote author=nickbatzdorf board=nick thread=1148748365 post=1149091460](I hate that you can't edit posts without a rude indication that you've done so on the bottom!)[quote]Nick,I always assume someone found a typo and went back to correct it. Or left out something important and added it. It isn't rude to modify.Nomi

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Re: Mic sale... which to choose?

Post by ernstinen » Wed May 31, 2006 9:58 am

Quote:I heard that Radio Shack PZMs were made by Crown.Yea, they were/are made by Crown. I wonder if that's the same Crown that makes those great power amps? Ern

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