Midi Guitar?

[southpaw]

The consensus seems to be that their is a choice between a midi controller, like a ztar, or a yrg, etc. and a couple of hybrid systems.

Those looking for the ability to compose and program with the same or more versatility than a keyboard, AND are serious about it enough to drop several hundred to a couple thousand bucks... Midi guitars look cool. But they are more like an "instrument" in their own right, and those who get creative with how to use, and even think about the tool-are probably going to find the most benefit.

While on the other hand, you've got some midi pickups like the GR as well as some new kids on the block like the fishman, axon, etc. that are good, primarily for live performance, so a guitarist can jam on some organ or play a semi-convincing yet intriguing trumpet solo.... But ultimately are not the ideal for the studio.

Then you've got the other digital audio - to midi tracking technologies that are functional, yet require more "hacking" and editing.

Is this an accurate synopsis?

[southpaw]

here's another, more detailed discussion thread.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/guitars- ... ssion.html

[CHuckmott]

I posted a similar thread awhle back and came to the conclusion after a bunch of research, much of it hands on, that by the time you learn how to "play" your midi guitar, phrasing, etc., and the fact that chord voicings, and the layout are different on the two instruments, you'd be better off taking the time to learn to minimally play keys. Was my experience anyway.

[Synetos]

I have experimented with midi guitar a bit as well. I have a Godin Multiac Spectrum SA Cutaway Acoustic-Electric and a Roland GI-20 interface. I play it in a computer running Cubase and can use all kinds of VSTs. I originally set this up for playing live. My goal was to use finger picking techniques and multiple VSTs setup so I could basically play bass guitar and a virtual 6 or 12 string acoustic at the same time. I was trying to limit the number of guitars I take to gigs and get a consistent clean sound with enhanced lowend. I never did use it live. It generally works well enough, but it doesn't track as well as a real acoustic and to me that slight lack of responsiveness kills it for me. As a result, I still prefer playing a real Martin acoustic in a live setting. I just end up taking 3-4 guitars to every gig.

I know artists who use this technology with Looping. Michael Monroe (http://www.michaelmonroe.info/home.html) is a great example. He uses an old Roland GR20 and a Boss RC-300. He has several custom built acoustic guitars with midi pickups installed. He is very good at what he does. Watching him live is really what gave me the idea to try it out myself. But, I never got in to the looping thing as I found it too limiting...(or perhaps I just suck at it, which is mostly true).

I have attempted to use it in my midi guitar rig in the studio but always go back to my keyboard for all things midi, even though I am not a keyboard player. I thought it might be good for laying down Bass guitar tracks in my studio, but I find myself creating a bass guitar grooves on my StingRay 5 HH and then dropping it down using a keyboard and Trilian Bass VST. I suppose I could use the Midi guitar, but it doesn't feel that same as playing a "real" bass. I feel more creative playing the real thing.

I spent well over $2k playing around with this and think it was basically a waste of time and money for me. Better to spend the coin on a good keyboard, or better VSTs...just my opinion...of course.

[lesfradkin]

Does anyone use or plan to use a Midi Guitar for composition, production, songwriting, performance?

This seems to me to be the future for guitarists and songwriting if you dont know how to/dont want to learn how to play the keys....

In my mind it seems like it would be ideal for laying down scratch tracks for some session players to cut once you get the song finalized.

Im eager to get a Midi Guitar, has anyone got any experience with them personally?

Definitely excited to see that the technology has come far enough already to finally go and splurge on one of these, rather than learning how to play keys.

Zero latency... Zero latency. zero latency!

After doing my research it looks like starrlabs are the best in terms of responseiveness, intuitiveness, and overall capability... They are expensive though it seems like a worthwhile investment for me.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions?

I come to this forum with 30 years experience with Midi Guitar dating back to pioneering Midi Guitar in TV, Jingles and recordings in 1983. I have owned: SynthAxe, Roland GR-1, GR-50, GR-33, GI-20, GM-70, GR-700, Yamaha G-10/G-10C, and the New England Digital Synclavier. I have tried Axon, Gus, and others. I have a YouRock Guitar (a toy) and have played a Misa Kitara. The best of that bunch was the SynthAxe and Synclavier combination, although it was unwieldy to tour with.

Currently, and since 2007, I play the Starr Labs Ztar Z7S exclusively with Ableton Live and Reason 6.5. It has NO LATENCY. For those who doubt this claim, check out my videos of "Lift Off" and "Warp Drive" and ask yourself if what you see could be possible with a Pitch to Midi System. I assure you, it can not. Not only because there is no "tracking" delay, but because the Ztar has 8 nested multi tuning maps, which allow me to divide the neck into 32 zones and discard the chromatic scale to place sound anywhere on or across the neck, as comfort and convenience allows. This also allows me unique use of Reason's Combinators which can be heard/seen in my Ztar videos.

Strictly speaking, the Ztar is NOT for everybody. It is not for the impatient. It is not for those who won't let go of their traditional guitar. But after years of struggling with edits to get rid of ghost notes, this instrument was shown to me and it did more than open up the Midi guitar door. It changed my approach to playing music ENTIRELY. It allows me to perform music that can not be played on ANY other instrument, Midi Guitar or midi keyboard. And it has deepened my musicality to the point where it continues to provide this musician, an ideal platform for personal expression, without apologies for latency, tracking delay, or features. And as a platform for entering data into Reason, it's unbeatable.

And that is the Ztar's greatest "secret": there is no one right way to play it. But I can assure one and all, that it is the future (well, my future).

FWIW, as a result of my use of the Ztar, I've just been nominated for the Indie Music Channel Awards Best Classical Artist of 2013.
http://www.theindiemusicchannel.com/...sclassical.htm

Regards,

Les Fradkin
New Media Artist / Composer

http://www.lesfradkin.com
http://www.reverbnation.com/lesfradkin
https://www.facebook.com/lfradkin
http://www.youtube.com/user/lfradkin
http://twitter.com/lesfradkin

[lesfradkin]

The consensus seems to be that their is a choice between a midi controller, like a ztar, or a yrg, etc. and a couple of hybrid systems.

Those looking for the ability to compose and program with the same or more versatility than a keyboard, AND are serious about it enough to drop several hundred to a couple thousand bucks... Midi guitars look cool. But they are more like an "instrument" in their own right, and those who get creative with how to use, and even think about the tool-are probably going to find the most benefit.

While on the other hand, you've got some midi pickups like the GR as well as some new kids on the block like the fishman, axon, etc. that are good, primarily for live performance, so a guitarist can jam on some organ or play a semi-convincing yet intriguing trumpet solo.... But ultimately are not the ideal for the studio.

Then you've got the other digital audio - to midi tracking technologies that are functional, yet require more "hacking" and editing.

Is this an accurate synopsis?

Yes, I think that summarizes it very well.

Les Fradkin

[allends]

.......after years of struggling with edits to get rid of ghost notes, this instrument [the Ztar]......

Les speaks the truth as do many others. I like my pitch-to-MIDI guitar setup, but I don't use it much for composing for many of the reasons mentioned. Of all of the people I listened to when I got into MIDI guitar 10 years ago, the Ztar users were the happiest by far. I didn't feel like spending the money to "do it right", so my small investment hasn't gotten me anywhere except a few nice bass tracks that took hours to fix.

For anyone who feels that pitch-to-MIDI guitar is a substitute for learning the keyboard: I suck at keys, but I'm much better laying down tracks with keys than with my MIDI guitar setup (RMC system played through Axon converter).

BTW: Les, your music is awesome!! Everybody listen to Les... he's the man!!

-Allen