Mixing Bass Frequencies

[djbobm]

Hi Everyone!I’ve been working with Logic 8 for a year now and I’d like to fine tune some mixing skills (or maybe I should say, lack of mixing skills). This question has to do with mixing bass frequencies. 1. Do you do multiple mixes, one with less bass for TV and another mix with a deeper bass? For the less bass one, do you roll off the bass frequencies starting at a certain point, or can you use a low cut (low pass, high pass??...I always get them confused) filter at a certain frequency range…68hz maybe. 2. If you place a piece, will a company tweak it to fit their needs…more bass, less bass etc.?I’ve been through 3 Logic tutorials and have read a lot on mixing and have tried to apply what I’ve learned to my projects. I’ve experimented with the pointed EQ boost and cut to separate bass and the kick drum. Does anyone have any “super secrets” or “one size fits all” ideas that they are willing to share on taming the bass?Thanks. I’m having so much fun learning all this stuff. (Pointing me in the right direction is greatly appreciated.)Bob

[davewalton]

Dec 11, 2008, 7:12am, djbobm wrote:Hi Everyone!I’ve been working with Logic 8 for a year now and I’d like to fine tune some mixing skills (or maybe I should say, lack of mixing skills). This question has to do with mixing bass frequencies. 1. Do you do multiple mixes, one with less bass for TV and another mix with a deeper bass? For the less bass one, do you roll off the bass frequencies starting at a certain point, or can you use a low cut (low pass, high pass??...I always get them confused) filter at a certain frequency range…68hz maybe. 2. If you place a piece, will a company tweak it to fit their needs…more bass, less bass etc.?I’ve been through 3 Logic tutorials and have read a lot on mixing and have tried to apply what I’ve learned to my projects. I’ve experimented with the pointed EQ boost and cut to separate bass and the kick drum. Does anyone have any “super secrets” or “one size fits all” ideas that they are willing to share on taming the bass?Thanks. I’m having so much fun learning all this stuff. (Pointing me in the right direction is greatly appreciated.)BobI'd suggest to mix to the appropriateness of the genre only. I mix (or try to) like I'm doing a CD according to the style/genre of the track in question. Some of my mixes are very light on the bass end (or even non-existant) but some have a very deep, wall-shaking sub-bass low end.A great Hip-Hop mix, a great Country mix, a great orchestral mix... they all have different requirements and the important thing is to deliver the "genuine" sound for each and every style we do.

[mojobone]

It's not unusual to make separate masters for CD and for the club, where the engineer knows the subs will be bangin'. In genres like R&B, Hip-Hop and Crunk, there will often be a third mix for radio/TV, so the subject can get complicated. Further muddying the waters, it can be tricky to even hear what's going on with the low end in the typical sort of small room where a solo producer makes the tracks, due to room modes/standing waves. I recommend having at least an eight-inch woofer in each monitor for general mixing, adding subs if you mix in bottom-heavy styles. Shoot your room to get an idea of any bumps/dips in the frequency response, if possible. There are lots of recipes, but no one-size-fits-all solution, sorry.

[southpaw]

"do you roll off the bass frequencies starting at a certain point, or can you use a low cut (low pass, high pass??...I always get them confused) filter at a certain frequency range…68hz maybe. "Rolling off 80hz and below is pretty standard. This gets rid of much of the excess lower frequencies that most playback systems cant reproduce accurately anyway. I tend to cut several db @250hz as well, to get rid of some of the lows in this octave that aid in a "muddy" sound. IMO it's not getting a good bass sound that's as important as the relationship of the bass and kick drum. High pass = Low cut (the high's pass) Low pass = High cut (lows pass) Good luck.Jamie

[matthoggard]

I have a couple of one size fits all hats you can borrow.They might help your mixing. M~

[stick]

Dec 12, 2008, 5:39pm, southpaw wrote:"do you roll off the bass frequencies starting at a certain point, or can you use a low cut (low pass, high pass??...I always get them confused) filter at a certain frequency range…68hz maybe. "Rolling off 80hz and below is pretty standard. This gets rid of much of the excess lower frequencies that most playback systems cant reproduce accurately anyway. I tend to cut several db @250hz as well, to get rid of some of the lows in this octave that aid in a "muddy" sound. IMO it's not getting a good bass sound that's as important as the relationship of the bass and kick drum. High pass = Low cut (the high's pass) Low pass = High cut (lows pass) Good luck.Jamie80Hz is pretty high for bass, no matter what what style. Guitars, vocals, sometimes piano, sure, but you're going to lose a lot of "bottom" if you chop off the bass at 80Hz. Same for kick... I'm often turning up the 40hz to get a good thump going. As with all of this stuff... there are no real rules. The best advice on mixing I've got is to put a reference mix in your DAW in the session you're working on. Choose a song that sounds exactly how you want yours to end up sounding when you're done, from the bass sound to the reverb on the lead vocal. Set the level so that you can precisely match the level of your tracks. Solo the reference, then flip to your mix. Does the bass sound the same volume? Is there more low end in the reference than yours? What about the bottom octave of the kick drum? Does yours thump exactly the same way? If not, do what you need to do to make it as close as you can. Mixing is 90% good ears, and 10% knowing how to make your track sound like what you're hearing. References are your friend. I've mixed songs I've produced with a couple of the top guys in LA. They ALWAYS were flipping back and forth to a reference mix to make sure they weren't going overboard on the bass, or not enough snare, or too much sibilance on the vocal. If the best in the biz think it's a good idea to mix to a reference, I'm sure it's probably a good idea for us.

[southpaw]

Stick, have to disagree."80Hz is pretty high for bass, no matter what what style. Guitars, vocals, sometimes piano, sure, but you're going to lose a lot of "bottom" if you chop off the bass at 80Hz. Same for kick... I'm often turning up the 40hz to get a good thump going."The first usable (not including maybe tribal, unique world music, etc.) is 40-80hz. Boosting 40hz will get you a good thump through most 20-20k monitoring systems, but it will not be translated accurately through most consumer playback systems. 80-250hz is the bass range that adds to the "body and fatness" of the low end. 40hz is the frequency of the rumble heard from an earthquake, it is the very lowest pitch on a bass guitar. Although usable, i have found it to be some what of a distracting frequency that can cloud my lows. As you mentioned, the ear is the only judge and mixing is preferential with a lot of ways to achieve the same thing. I'll second the value of referencing commerical mixes as stick said. Bob had asked for "some common techniques" for the mixing the low end, i can tell you these are pretty common techniques from audio production/engineering school and other engineers i know. Jamie

[stick]

Well, as with everything, do what works for you. I know what works for me from a lot of years of experience. Maybe they do it different now. HA HA!How about this... you can find people to give you every opinion about mixing you want to hear (as you can see just from the two of us). Do what works for your genre, the particular song you're working on, and what sounds "right" to you. If that lines up with what your client, your fans, or your screener think is good, you'll make money or have success in the music industry (they aren't always the same thing).

[southpaw]

Hey stick,"Well, as with everything, do what works for you. I know what works for me from a lot of years of experience. Maybe they do it different now. HA HA!"ARE YOU KIDDING! Back in my day we had to learn how to mix - in the snow, barefoot, and to get to it we had to walk 3 miles.. uphill both ways! HEHE. ~ You are right, whatever works for what your goals are, work best. Perhaps when i am a veteran producer like yourself i will have completely new habits and wonder why i used to mix the way i did. aha! Cheers

[djbobm]

Thanks Dave, Mojobone, Jamie and Brian for the great information. (Sorry, Matt, but my head is too fat for a hat, but thanks for chiming in!) I’m soaking all this information up and will try everything out. The reference mix is a great idea. I think I’ve read that somewhere before but I never did it…duh! Sometimes it almost gets like information overload!Happy Holidays.Bob