Mixing Insight

[bigbluebarry]

A BIG thank you to all who have posted with tips and information. This thread has been very informative for me. I know I didn't start the thread, but I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to share your knowledge.- Big Blue

[ibanez468]

Yeah, glen has a knack for startin' a thread and watchin' it take off!

[ggalen]

May 8, 2008, 5:35pm, ibanez468 wrote:Yeah, glen has a knack for startin' a thread and watchin' it take off! Thanks, ibanez.Yet, I really don't know why that has happened. It's primarily the contributors that do it, of course, not me. I guess there are a lot of people on the forum interested in some of the same things that I am!

[ernstinen]

May 8, 2008, 3:42pm, wodinlord wrote:Over 30 years ago, I went to college to learn about recording and still ended up having to teach myself. But, I do have a degree from the Recording School of Hard Knocks!Once again, ditto for me! I went to a recording arts school about 20 years ago. I already had a bachelor's in Hard Knocks, but thought I could learn from a pro.Well --- the owner/teacher couldn't even do a simple punch-in of a vocal. Seriously! It took him an hour to find the spot, when I could have done it in 30 seconds. (He knew a lot about technical stuff, like aligning a 24-track machine and electronic circuitry, but simple musical knowledge was not his strong point ). --- Needless to say, the vocalist was quite, er, peeved. I was young and intimidated by hanging around "the pros," so I kept my mouth shut (for once! ).If anyone would ask me whether to spend a big chunk of $$ on a recording arts school, or spend the same amount on your own gear, I wouldn't hesitate for a second --- Buy your own damn studio and learn by trial and error! The exception would be if you weren't very musical, but had a strong talent for the technical side of electrical engineering. SOMEONE'S got to fix and maintain all that gear! Studios love to have at least one person like that around, to help out the creative types with great ears who can barely tie their own shoes. Ern

[milfus]

Gotta disagree on the schooling, I have done both, been mentored and I am still in classes, and it really all comes down to the teacher, I have had like production teachers, that had done many grammy mixes, and they would just drop a comment as an aside note, on something totally unrelated to producing even, that would just drop your jaw.but since we are ponying up tips, I agree with wood about the layering, although I am a bit looser, I dont segment into 4 sections. I try to visualize a sound block, each instrument is a diff color, and a diff shape, the width and height in the mix are like the averages for the panning and frequency, and balance, with depth being actual perceived depth from reverbs and ambience and stuff. If you can get to where you can see your mix, you will learn to actually spot your collisions and gaps and what not, after you place it roughly where you want it. another really great trick I figured out, because I saw a digital artist do it, as he was painting, he kept flipping the horizontal on the image about every 5-6 minutes, and I finally just asked him why he kept inverting the image. he said "so my eyes dont get used to the shapes, I have to keep judging whats allready there, it makes the errors pop out at me." , so sure enough, I start mixing, and I have my daw set with a script to flip my left and right through a little pan plug in in the master channel, and I just bypass and unbypass it. Well as you guessed, it worked BRILLIANTLY, I would be trying to find a frequency, or looking for collisions, *flip* damn that guitar is grating against the cymbals, *fix*, *flip* the bass still isnt as around the kick as id hoped, I mean like every time until I flipped it and didnt hear a collision, well I submit this mix to my class (it was my final), and my teacher actually got pissed at the rest of the class and told them that I was going to put them all out of biz if they didnt start putting in the effort, I was freakin SHOCKED. its a cheap little trick, but I noticed it, and I made it, and it works, so I move that this be named the "milfus manuever", try it, your mix will thank you, also, balancing for me, esspescially relative balancing, is hella easier in mono, and by mono i mean pushing that mono button, and actually turning one of the speakers off, 1 speaker, mono signal, itll help, trust me (same with eq and most other dynamics)

[davekershaw]

This thread's great.My files nearly full with all the stuff I've printed from it.Thanks everyone, especially Glenn for starting it!

[liamkelly]

Good thread. Thanks for sharing, guys.Very stupid question : the 'other room' thing. Do you literally mean to let the track play through the monitors and listen in another room? Like through the walls?Sorry - told you it was a stupid question.Liam

[neuphoria]

also spent a lot of time learning about cutting/boosting. tons of magazines have articles on it. very helpful was to find a chart that gave general ranges of where instruments should sit, where they get muddy, etc. find one.recently, though, most software have pre-programmed (but still adjustable) channel strip plug-ins with eq,reverb,compressors etc. all set... i.e. "rock drum set" or "acoustic guitar" -- so that takes a lot of the trial & error learning out. you can even look at the eq graphs and see what beeing cut/boosted-- which correlates to the info given by posters above. so for beginners/mid level, go that route. (same thing for compressors. took me forever to figure out how to use on different intruments/voices... just about the time I had a handle on it, the plug ins came in.)anyway, it's a great starting point: look at the preset channel-strip settings in software programs. you still have to use your ears of course. (it's kinda like when artist used to have to make their own paint. now it's bought out of the tube. you still have to mix it according to taste, but at least you aren't grinding cobalt down to powder etc.)

[ernstinen]

May 8, 2008, 10:02pm, milfus wrote:Gotta disagree on the schooling, I have done both, been mentored and I am still in classes, and it really all comes down to the teacher, I have had like production teachers, that had done many grammy mixes, and they would just drop a comment as an aside note, on something totally unrelated to producing even, that would just drop your jaw.Yea, I can see how a good teacher can make a big difference, like at any school. He/she can really inspire, or deflate you depending on the person! Here's my point about investing in your own studio vs. going to a recording arts school: A lot of those schools are a for-profit business. Even the ones that aren't are VERY expensive if you go for a long period of time.I've got a friend whose son just got admitted to Berklee College of Music in Boston, which is a very well-respected school. He's a great percussionist, and got a $9000 a year scholarship. I'm so happy for them! That will help with the tuition. But let's say you're going there for recording engineering. Ya know how much tuition and room & board is at Berklee? over $40,000 a year! Multiply that by 4 years, plus travel expenses coming back and forth for the holidays, beer etc., and you're approaching $200,000! Now, that kind of money would buy you an incredible recording studio, with money left over to HIRE someone at minimum wage from Full Sail etc. to do the technical stuff. Quote:pushing that mono button, and actually turning one of the speakers off, 1 speaker, mono signal, itll help, trust me (same with eq and most other dynamics)Aha! Now here's a great tip that I'll take a step further. The Mono button is your friend in more ways than one. It will help you find out if there are things in your mix that are "out of phase." If you've messed up something in your stereo program and push the mono button, your whole mix collapses!For instance, I was up at the family cabin a few years ago in N. Minnesota, and was enjoying the eclectic programming of FM station WELY. The signal was weak one day, so I pushed the mono button on the receiver. EVERYTHING that was panned center in the stereo mix (lead vocal, kick drum, bass guitar, snare etc.) VANISHED! Gone. I knew exactly what it was. One of their two broadcast circuits was "out of phase." You'd hear a song that would sound fine, and then they would switch over to their second playback system, and all you would hear was secondary parts and reverb! Ah, the northwoods --- I love it up there!I actually called the radio station and asked for their engineer. They said he was on vacation. I told them about the problem, and they didn't know what I was talking about. Sheesh! Moral of the story --- Go Mono! Ern

[devin]

May 9, 2008, 7:02am, ernstinen wrote: beer etc.Ern, that beer tab was going to show up whether you're in school or not ....no fair blaming the education system for my love of beer (that's what my day job is for) .On the "formal schooling thing", it can be a pain to be limited to someone else's version of what they think you should know.But on the flip side, with a good teacher, it can save alot of time. Plus it has lots to do with student too. Some folks can attend a formal school and really soak it up...others prefer to be the mad scientist in the basement re-discovering it all for themselves. (I'm closer to the basement type).For me, I like trying it myself first, then reaching out to fill in the gaps. I retain ALOT more when I finally find out "so THAT'S why it sounds like crap!" after making some attempts myself. I think alot of us are in this same situation...sounds like Glenn is too. Doing the best we can with what we've got, and reading up when it's time for a new trick.Now that Glenn knows 50% of my mixing tips, it's time to bombard him with my send & last tip: get used to your monitors. I've been told (right here on the boards!) to play my commercial reference material before, and even during, a mixing session. For example, if I really like the guitar sound from James Taylor's "Fire and Rain" (does anyone not like that tone?)...I'll play that when setting up mics or when mixing. Nothing wrong with trying to dial that in. By alternating between the reference track and what I'm recording or mixing, it can give me feedback on mic placement, compression, eq, reverb, etc, etc. Someday I'll get it!