Modes.... need a simple explanation please.

[crs7string]

Jesse,I wonder if we were plumbers if we would be trying to compare to see who had the biggest wrench!!!! I've long discovered that the study of music theory takes a little more than one lifetime. For a couple of decades I've been practicing out of the George Van Eps books published by Mel Bay.Some of the exercises have you playing in two keys at the same time!!! Some of the exercises have you play in one scale going up the fret board and a different key coming down. This stuff takes a couple of lifetimes. And it's all still tonal!!! Not atonal, that's another lifetime of study. If I really was a snob about this stuff my learning would be over and what would be the point of that???? Chuck

[geo]

Quote:For a couple of decades I've been practicing out of the George Van Eps books published by Mel Bay.See that's my problem, when I took guitar lessons in highschool I started with the Mel Bay Guitar Book #1, as soon as I realized there were like 10 books I quit and started a band.... so impatient.Thanks for the help guys, as soon as I think I got it, someone else post and I have to think about it all over again....They gave a couple of examples (Black Hole Sun and a Beetles tune), think I'll search out sheet music and analyze the chords in relation to the explanations given here. You guys did pretty good, the Wikipedia explanation, now that fried my brain!!! I think I already do a couple of songs that use modes, (I sometimes choose chords because of their relation to each other in a progression... Em/Em7/D/D7..... A/Asus4/D/Dsus4/.. things like that) but I'll check it out... Got the hook ready for my next song so I gotta get going... I'm at work, gotta get outa here...Thanks again... even to the theory snobs... Geo

[hummingbird]

I think I have a headache now

[arkjack]

Tomorrow's lesson will be on quartal jam patterns in the mixolydian sharp 4 and chromatic modulation relationships..... in all twelve keys..... Goodnight....ArkJack

[geo]

Quote:Tomorrow's lesson will be on quartal jam patterns in the mixolydian sharp 4 and chromatic modulation relationships..... in all twelve keys..... Goodnight....ArkJackShow-off!! OK had trouble finding sheet music on-line, apparantly the MPA or something or other is cracking down.... and I wanted to start my tune so here are the chords:ChorusAsus4 / Asus4add7 / Gmaj / Dsus4Asus4 - I add on the E on the D string even though the chord dict says open.Asus4add7 - adding the G on the E string, not actually in chord dict as this chord... hummm?Gmaj - add the D on the B stringDsus4 - standardVerseAsus4 / / / Asus2 / / / Gmaj / / / Dsus4 / / / /Question, are these Modes? If they are which one(s)? I'm having trouble figuring out a "B" section... any ideas?Thanks... GeoP.S. Thanks again, it's great to have someone to turn to for things like this, you guys are awesome.

[vicky]

I wanna fry Geo's mind too.....ooo....me....too..... we all have our ways of talking about this stuff.... I usually start with the basic chord definition...when explaining.....modal playing actually came later in popular music....yeah sure all the books teach major first to explain this, but...who's really using major that much anyway....ok maybe in the context of a 6th chord, but major 7th?...not too much, except classical and jazz....now don't start naming tunes everyone, or I'll have to start naming the ones without.....and that won't be pretty....Geo a chord is defined in most cases by root, third, 5th and 7th...I'd start one chord at a time....write a progression with all 7th chords...mixylydian, is the mode that belongs to this chord mostly for now....G7....is...G,B,D,F for chord tones and the mode is GABCDEFGI love talking about chords....remember....there are only 12 notes...keep on rockin'Vicky

[geo]

Nice to see you up VTBP... Geo

[mazz]

Quote:Quote:Tomorrow's lesson will be on quartal jam patterns in the mixolydian sharp 4 and chromatic modulation relationships..... in all twelve keys..... Goodnight....ArkJackShow-off!! OK had trouble finding sheet music on-line, apparantly the MPA or something or other is cracking down.... and I wanted to start my tune so here are the chords:ChorusAsus4 / Asus4add7 / Gmaj / Dsus4Asus4 - I add on the E on the D string even though the chord dict says open.Asus4add7 - adding the G on the E string, not actually in chord dict as this chord... hummm?Gmaj - add the D on the B stringDsus4 - standardVerseAsus4 / / / Asus2 / / / Gmaj / / / Dsus4 / / / /Question, are these Modes? If they are which one(s)? I'm having trouble figuring out a "B" section... any ideas?Thanks... GeoP.S. Thanks again, it's great to have someone to turn to for things like this, you guys are awesome. Geo,Those aren't modes, they're chords that belong to a certain mode. There's a number of ways to analyze this stuff like from chord to chord, picking a different mode for each chord or you could just use your ear and hear what chord seems to be the most "magnetic" to the rest of the chords. That chord is probably defining the key center that your progression is in. Even if you "modulate" (move to an "unrelated" chord) if your musical intention is to return to the "magnetic" chord, then you never really left the tonality, you just changed the modality. (blues is a special case).In other words, you can shift modality without ever changing tonality, or you can modulate, which in effect shifts both tonality and modality.In your case, I'd analyze your song to be in the tonality of G and the modality shifts from some type of pentatonic on the A sus chords to a major mode on the G and back to some sort of pentatonic on the D sus. All in the "key" center of G.Your ear will guide you, after all, it's about the sound in the end. It's nice to know this stuff because it gives you more options to try with less trial and error but sometimes it's the exploration that gives the best stuff anyway.Most of the great jazz improvisors seem to be able to hear above the music and percieve the shifting of tonalities that was popular in the style of composition that makes up the majority of the material used for jazz improvisation (the great American songbook, songs from the 30's and 40's Broadway musicals mostly). They then manipulate the modality to add color to their improvisations (like doing a II V in minor but resolving on a I major). Then a bunch of geeks like us come along and try to figure out what they did and try to give it names and argue about which name is the right one when we could be spending our time writing, listening, transcribing and playing. It's all about the music in the end. But it's fun to argue about it!! Mazz

[horacejesse]

Some smart people around here. The depth and variety of the explanations are beautiful stuff. Everyone apprehends this modes business in their own personal way. Yet we are talking about the same thing.Like Chuck says, when in doubt just play out of the tonal center which accommodates any of the modes. If a chord comes which is not in the tonal center, just think of it as a transient accidental which will sink back into the mode as soon as the chord passes.Chuck, that George van Epps book sounds pretty fascinating. I am going to look that up. I probably cannot handle it though. I classify my own reading level as upper mediocre.

[mazz]

My music teacher has written an amazing book that goes in depth on the whole subject starting from an acoustical perspective, overtones, equal temperament, etc.http://www.amazon.com/Harmonic-Experien ... sr=8-1This book is the result of a lifetime of study and is quite a journey and is quite revolutionary in a lot of the explanations. For those of you who want to dig a little deeper and look at modality from another angle, check it out! I've been studying with him for 7 years and I still feel like I'm scratching the surface of this stuff.Mazz