Moving goal posts?

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andygabrys
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Re: Moving goal posts?

Post by andygabrys » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:02 pm

If you subtract the vocal, you have to have the melody coming from somewhere, right? I'm not sure that bells are any worse choice than anything else. Electric guitar makes it too rock, lots of keyboard sounds would make it too electronic...what do you suggest that keeps it singer/songwriter feeling? Maybe an acoustic guitar, but that can feel really flat and boring. I'd push back that the bells are still EVERYWHERE and that while we are constantly wanting to be on the bleeding edge, very little of what actually gets used falls into that category. But what do I know? I'm just a spectacularly achievement-deprived wannabe musician! :D
Here's an alternative viewpoint:

Sometimes you don't need the melody. Sure all the refs have vocal melodies, and they are supposed to flavor your piece with the right sauce.

You piece needs to have the right vibe so that it could be placed under a scene where something else is happening and give it the FEELING of having one of these refs under the picture. Not necessarily the vocal melody, that would likely compete with dialogue.

When it comes to melody / no melody, a simple strumming part on a guitar can have enough melody to get you started. Make that the focus of your cue can get you started.

Then everything else, the drums, the bells, etc. can be more minimal. Like the strings (?) at the end of the Rob Thomas piece are pretty much holding a pedal tone, not even a chord. The drums aren't a full set, its more of an indie 4 on the floor kick drum (think Mumford and Sons) plus some claps for backbeat. Same with the Fine Frenzy piece. The strings are also pretty minimal in the fine Frenzy piece and the thing that struck me most was the great guitar sound.

Something to consider - like was said by DI - sometimes a great piece isn't the right pitch for the listing even though it seems right when you made it.

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Re: Moving goal posts?

Post by coxnvox » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:30 pm

andygabrys wrote:
If you subtract the vocal, you have to have the melody coming from somewhere, right? I'm not sure that bells are any worse choice than anything else. Electric guitar makes it too rock, lots of keyboard sounds would make it too electronic...what do you suggest that keeps it singer/songwriter feeling? Maybe an acoustic guitar, but that can feel really flat and boring. I'd push back that the bells are still EVERYWHERE and that while we are constantly wanting to be on the bleeding edge, very little of what actually gets used falls into that category. But what do I know? I'm just a spectacularly achievement-deprived wannabe musician! :D
Here's an alternative viewpoint:

Sometimes you don't need the melody. Sure all the refs have vocal melodies, and they are supposed to flavor your piece with the right sauce.

You piece needs to have the right vibe so that it could be placed under a scene where something else is happening and give it the FEELING of having one of these refs under the picture. Not necessarily the vocal melody, that would likely compete with dialogue.

When it comes to melody / no melody, a simple strumming part on a guitar can have enough melody to get you started. Make that the focus of your cue can get you started.

Then everything else, the drums, the bells, etc. can be more minimal. Like the strings (?) at the end of the Rob Thomas piece are pretty much holding a pedal tone, not even a chord. The drums aren't a full set, its more of an indie 4 on the floor kick drum (think Mumford and Sons) plus some claps for backbeat. Same with the Fine Frenzy piece. The strings are also pretty minimal in the fine Frenzy piece and the thing that struck me most was the great guitar sound.

Something to consider - like was said by DI - sometimes a great piece isn't the right pitch for the listing even though it seems right when you made it.
Thanks, Andy. Great thoughts.

Peace,
kerry
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Re: Moving goal posts?

Post by coxnvox » Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:53 pm

Paulie wrote:Is the kick drum at 0:13 late, or is the guitar strum early? :)


PC
Ha! You win! One of the acoustic strums is WAY early there! Bummer that I didn't investigate what was bothering me there about that...I should be way past missing things like that. Suck...
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Re: Moving goal posts?

Post by cosmicdolphin » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:18 am

coxnvox wrote: I guess no one is really addressing my beef,
I will ..listened to yours first..nice cue. Don't have any real issues with it

Listened to the Ref Tracks and they are not the same for me. So how would I describe it ?

I would say when I heard yours I thought positive, a bit twee, child friendly , slightly corporate..kind of twinkly. Kids running round a toy store in a Christmas Ad.

Didn't get that vibe fromthe Ref tracks...still positive but a more grown up , adult feel. A tad more tension in the melody..different note lengths to yours give it a different feel.

A good test..play your audio under their video..does it still fit themeatically ?

What could you do ? Drop the bell melody..come up with a darker melody on a different insturement ..Personally I would just keep this for what it is but acdept it's not quite the right thing for this listing.

There used to be a TV gameshow here in the UK called Catchphrase and if the contestant guessed wrong the host would say " It's a good answer...but it's not the right one "

Mark

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Re: Moving goal posts?

Post by coxnvox » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:57 am

cosmicdolphin wrote:
coxnvox wrote: I guess no one is really addressing my beef,
I will ..listened to yours first..nice cue. Don't have any real issues with it

Listened to the Ref Tracks and they are not the same for me. So how would I describe it ?

I would say when I heard yours I thought positive, a bit twee, child friendly , slightly corporate..kind of twinkly. Kids running round a toy store in a Christmas Ad.

Didn't get that vibe fromthe Ref tracks...still positive but a more grown up , adult feel. A tad more tension in the melody..different note lengths to yours give it a different feel.

A good test..play your audio under their video..does it still fit themeatically ?

What could you do ? Drop the bell melody..come up with a darker melody on a different insturement ..Personally I would just keep this for what it is but acdept it's not quite the right thing for this listing.

There used to be a TV gameshow here in the UK called Catchphrase and if the contestant guessed wrong the host would say " It's a good answer...but it's not the right one "

Mark
Thanks, Mark. Appreciate your thoughts. Take care!

kerry
James Cox
coxnvox music, evergreen, co
Founder and CEO - Missional Score
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