my first beef with Taxi

[mazz]

Randin,We've been around this block a few times before here, and I don't say that to minimize your concerns or feelings, and certainly not to defend TAXI. I'm sure you've had experiences with clients where they are absolutely certain that they want an oboe, and upon hearing a beautiful oboe, say, "what's that screeching sound?". What they really wanted was a flute but all their life they thought a flute was an oboe, and not being a musician, they didn't even think to question their assumptions. Now that's an extreme example (although I did hear a version of that from a well know film composer, it happened to them personally), but really that's the reality that we are dealing with on a day to day basis in this business. Sometimes clients insist that what they are wanting is what they are wanting and in reality, it's a bit different, if we were able to read between the lines. I honestly think you misread the listing and did a sound alike of the Gladiator music, which the listing specifically mentioned it didn't want. They also mentioned high energy, which your track didn't quite get to, in my opinion, of course. Which is the rub here. It's all opinion, some are more educated than others and that's the territory that we have chosen to wander here in the entertainment business.I think you are a talented and capable composer and will do well in the film/tv realm, via TAXI and other avenues you may choose to explore. From your introductions, I've gathered that you've worked with other non-musicians in other types of collaborative ventures and so are no stranger to having to interpret vague, non-musical descriptions. It's much the same here except we don't get to interact and interview the listing parties. At times it seems that TAXI could do a better job at that up front, but the bottom line is, they are dealing with the same issues we are, and it's an inexact science, at best. You'll get the hang of it and in the meantime, it may be worth a call or e-mail to TAXI to get some resolution on this issue. Their customer service is very good. It's worth the few minutes it will take.Now get back in the studio and write another great track!! Cheers!Mazz

[didger]

Hey Mazz, Thanks for the discussion.Yeah, the level of soundalike is a potential issue, but I didn't imitate Gladiator's scales, melodies, harmonies or rhythms. I just used similar instruments and started with a similar mood. I don't think it's ripoff or soundalike to use similar "world" instruments when we're expected to use the same western ones all the time, but maybe that's just my attitude after being heavily involved in "world music" for many years, an attitude that may be incompatible with mainstream standards. Still - a different specific reason was given for the return, one that makes me suspect the reviewer didn't listen to the referenced material, so wouldn't have known a soundalike if he/she heard it, anyway. But it's pointless to go over that any more here!And yeah, I paraphrased a story of a director who wanted "clarinet" that was actually oboe in the African music thread. I wonder if you heard yet another true account of the same thing happening. Funny.I've had pretty good luck with directors, just one bad one so far. Knock on virtual wood. But what I'm irritated by is not non-musical descriptions from film folks, but what I thought were specific musical descriptions from music professionals. I didn't think "big orchestral" meant "ignore any other obvious elements from the example" and the contradictions in the African music listing displayed an ignorance of African music. That's what's disturbing me - lack of musical sophistication from the professional music service. ANYWAY! It's obviously not gonna be solved by this thread.Fortunately, I've got to score a short with an animated Chinese dragon flying over a village he's about to attack, so tomorrow I'll be working on another world action piece, which will definitely be at a more standard "action tempo." So that'll kill two birds (and several of the villagers).I actually did send an email to headscreener yesterday when the notifications went out and haven't gotten a reply yet.later...

[mazz]

I appreciate your persistence and viewpoint on this and it's always worth a try to get requesters of our services to give us clearer descriptions so we can give them music that better fits their needs with less back and forth. The listing client obviously had a particular sound in mind and maybe the Gladiator reference was made by them from some memory of how it felt rather than how it actually sounded. We'll never know, probably!! Your project sounds like a lot of fun. Slaying dragons is a good thing to be involved in!! Cheers!!Mazz

[matto]

Beautiful track Randin.I'm quite familiar with Gladiator having had to do a few knock-offs myself at some point .I would agree your piece sounds a lot like some of the Gladiator cues.The problem is...the headline of the listing reads BIG ORCHESTRAL TRACKS in capital letters. Your track is not a big orchestral track. It is a medium intensity track at most, not high energy, and it is dominated by world music instruments, with orchestral elements added, but not primarily orchestral.If the Taxi listing had read A VARIETY OF SOUNDTRACK CUES A LA GLADIATOR and Taxi had rejected your cue then you would be right and the screener wrong. However that's not what the listing read.If I client tells me "I need a big orchestral track, high energy, you know, with dark undercurrents, kinda like Gladiator", then I would go buy the Gladiator soundtrack, find the big orchestral moments in it, and write a cue that matched the mood, emotion and energy of those moments. I wouldn't pick a medium energy world dominated track, or one of those ethereal Lisa Gerrad moments. In other words, I'd take ALL of the client's specifications into consideration, not just SOME of them. I would go for the throat with one of those big dark "Planets" influenced Zimmer cues. A track like that, and of the writing quality your current track exhibits, would certainly have been forwarded to this listing.The good news is you now have a very nice cue that will almost certainly find a home sooner or later...Now as far as listing inaccuracies as evidenced especially by the South African listing you cite, please remember the listing specs and in almost all cases the a la artists come from the client, NOT Taxi. Taxi does their best to draw as much information as possible out of the client and present it to us in as logical a fashion as possible, but they also have a responsibilty to present ALL the information the client provides even if some doesn't make 100% sense or is 100% accurate. If they withheld information then we'd have a bunch of members complaining about THAT. I would say I'm about 95% sure the a la artists in the African listing came straight from the client. Like our clients, Taxi's clients are, for the most part, NOT musicians.If a client of mine wanted a South African folk instrumental and then gave some examples of music that was neither South African nor folk, I wouldn't point out to them that they have no clue what they are talking about, instead I would find the common denominator among their examples and write them something I think would be appropriate. Then again I like to work... I'm glad Taxi takes listings from reputable companies with impressive track records, even if those listings are not musicologically accurate, and presents these opportunities to us...rather than making those clients feel like nincompoops.But as I said...I like to work... matto

[didger]

Thanks for the comments, Matto.Like I already said in response to Barry, I wouldn't have been surprised if I was rejected with "not loud or fast enough from the get go." The following is the part I still don't agree with, but I guess it's what I've learned about the way music libraries can think and talk.Aug 5, 2009, 4:23pm, matto wrote:The problem is...the headline of the listing reads BIG ORCHESTRAL TRACKS in capital letters. Your track is not a big orchestral track... dominated by world music instruments, with orchestral elements added, but not primarily orchestral.Shall we count the chairs? Again, maybe it's because I've worked primarily in world music for a long time that I don't see this the same way... as everyone else, apparently. The piece is for a full string section, large sections of trumpets, trombones, horns, snare, bass drum and timpani, with only one melodic/harmonic "world" instrument, and three "world" percussion instruments. I'd say we're about 60 musicians to 4.So it's a strange philosophy to me, that at a certain point a piece written primarily for orchestral instruments becomes "not orchestral." I mean... an orchestra is a type of ensemble, not a genre of music. Orchestras can play classical, romantic, avante garde, pop and world music and it's still "orchestral."But apparently not in the music library world that I've recently subscribed to here, so that's what I've learned for the future!

[mazz]

I think in the world of library music, "Big Orchestra" means the size of the sound, and not necessarily the size of the ensemble. I sort of automatically thought that was meant was "big sound" but I can see where the term would be confusing, since a big orchestra can play pretty quietly when necessary!Always learning!Mazz

[stevebarden]

Aug 5, 2009, 4:23pm, matto wrote:The problem is...the headline of the listing reads BIG ORCHESTRAL TRACKS in capital letters. Your track is not a big orchestral track. It is a medium intensity track at most, not high energy, and it is dominated by world music instruments, with orchestral elements added, but not primarily orchestral.A wise man once say: "It not how big it is, but how you use it"

[cameron]

That's been a gripe of mine in the past too. It seems that the screeners don't always listen to the material the listings reference, and I think it's fair to say they don't always know exactly what the end-user wants either. Cam

[benjamine]

Aug 6, 2009, 7:13am, stevebarden wrote:Aug 5, 2009, 4:23pm, matto wrote:The problem is...the headline of the listing reads BIG ORCHESTRAL TRACKS in capital letters. Your track is not a big orchestral track. It is a medium intensity track at most, not high energy, and it is dominated by world music instruments, with orchestral elements added, but not primarily orchestral.A wise man once say: "It not how big it is, but how you use it" Quote:A wise man once say: "It not how big it is, but how you use it"That man probably didn't have a very big one himself!!!I mean orchestra of course.