Need advice

[billg]

Hey mcanty, I had the exact same thing happen. An indie country/gospel artist wanted to cut one of my tunes, wanted co-write etc. She was horrible (IMO). She sent me the contract & I was gonna sign, I figured nothing ventured nothing gained. Contract came in, I looked over it and tossed it on the kitchen table where it stayed for three weeks. Finally I just tossed it out. Couldn't see any benefit in my signing away my song to her. you gotta go with your gut.

[gitarrero]

I guess your question concerning that specific song for that indie artist have been answered.I just wanted to add that there is no real reason to be afraid of publishers. you just need to check them (their resume, credits..) out before you sign a song to a publisher. and make sure that you have a reversion clause in your contract.a publisher can add HUGE values to songs as well as to your career in general. a good publisher might you connect with other writers, you might have access to bigger project where the publisher has a personal relationship to (..and this can make a huge diffrence - e.g. if your cd lands on the "unknown songwriters"-pile or on the "from known and respected publishers"-selection). ...provided the publisher is worth it's money - simply check out their credits, take a look at the company, etc.it's true that a publisher earns half of the income if s/he gets you a cut, but better 50% of something than 100% of nothing.jason blume ("6 steps of songwriting") overs a good perspective on such topics from a songwriters view. besides that "all you need to know about the music business" from donald passman is another great resource if you want to learn to understand the principles and functions in the music industry.just my 2 cents;)cheers,martin

[anne]

" I feel certain that the artist has no chance of maximizing the potential." I'd say you thought it through already and just aren't sure if there is some compelling reason you should do still consider working with him, no?I wouldn't sign over unless you'll benefit by something like Matto and Martin et al have already said. The books they mentioned are good, and, if you go to the rally, you will hear a lot more on the subject of defining that something.As far as the second issue - here is my example. (Everyone yawn). I hate W*Mart's practices in the way it treats its employees. However, because they are advertising GIANTS as far as airplay, I'd have no qualms about taking their money if they wanted to use one of my songs in a commercial. I can make a difference in w*mart's "ethics" by much better means - by not spending my money there. If it were a song for a NAMBLA commercial that promoted their reason to exist, I'd likely say "no"as that is a much deeper level of how much I disagree with their "values". With me is a matter of how unethical / horrible / in opposition to my beliefs something is before I'd cut off my chance to sell a song. Maybe some would say that behavior, in itself, is unethical but you got to put food on the table (or money in the bank.)There is a short but good note regarding this in Joanne Ledesma's book about the business. I felt differently about this (to an extent) before reading it. She could be wrong, too, but I still agree with her approach. Just MY 2 cents.

[andreh]

Apr 30, 2008, 5:04pm, anne wrote:If it were a song for a NAMBLA commercial, I'd likely say "no way"Hey, what's wrong with the National Association of Marlon Brando Look Alikes?AndréPS - If you're talking about that other NAMBLA, what the heck are you doing writing songs they'd want to use in the first place!

[Casey H]

One compromise (on the artist cut) that might be possible is to ask the publisher for a reversion clause that says unless they earn you X dollars within N years, it reverts. A clause based only on this artist cutting the song isn't good enough since there is a good chance that will happen anyway. If the artist cuts it, it could still earn you no money while you can't kick in the reversion.I'm not saying you SHOULD take this deal. But bear in mind that credits on your music resume are good and lead to other things. If this would be your first cut, give it more weight.Regarding the documentary, tough call. I am currently pitching a song for someone else where the target market leans strongly to one side politically-- far from my own philosophies. But I decided it is a business and to treat it that way. No, I wouldn't give music to NAMBLA either.Good luck! Casey

[milfus]

just as a counter point, I dropped two deals cause of this, when i saw the actual revisions, I offered to re-write the song myself to fit, no go, cause they just wanted my publishing and writers, so I actually told em to find someone else, and they tried to convince me to do it and said it was standard practice, at which time i told them I dont need to talk to them until they change there buisiness practices, that being said, and me feeling all moral victoried, they will kill any deal they can that has my name on it, but then again, the other people around them know better, so its kind of a trade off, and I probably could have handled it better, but I value people on there integrity, to a point where I will happily lose money over it. not the wisest approach, admittedly, but then again, its not really that bad of one either, allowing that i ever do get in a position of influence, they are gonna learn a hard lesson in ethics, just cause they missed out.

[anne]

Nambla was just an example of something I couldn't support...Unless they need cute little 70s funk songs, or indy folk or similar - well - I think I'm in no danger of having them ever need anything I write!I'm all for Marlon Brando Look Alikes (as long as its the Streetcar days and not the Godfather days).

[coachdebra]

Quote: I think I have answered my own question. Sometimes it helps to put the question out there, because you're asking yourself as well as all of us. Quote:This has been a very frustrating month. <snip>#2 - Not every deal is a GOOD deal I think it might be useful to re-frame these experiences -- it seems to me that you're thinking about them as if they are bad news. But I think it's the universe beginning to open up doors of opportunity for you. One thing you have to remember - that the universe has abundant opportunities -- and the more SPECIFIC you are about what you want, the more targeted he/she/it/they are with the opportunities sent your way.So, it's not that not every deal is a GOOD deal -- it's more that not every deal is YOUR deal! Not every opportunity that comes your way is YOUR opportunity. And the fact that these two opportunities weren't yours, is just evidence that there are lots of opportunities out there and they're starting to flow your way. At least, that's how I suggest you think about it! So rather than focus on how they weren't right for you -- focus on what would be right for you. WHAT DO YOU WANT? Focus on that! Be specific! Visualize! Get joyfully excited and grateful for those opportunities and how much fun you'll have when they land.Warm regards,Debra

[edteja]

Quote:I think I am in phase two of songwriting's hard lessons.#1 - This industry works SLOW#2 - Not every deal is a GOOD deal That's a pretty good summary, except that you need to add #3 -- If you are working hard and think nothing is happening, remember #1I would not suggest letting this clown, I mean artist/publisher, have publishing, even with reversion, since you know from what he has said you would just be letting him collect money for that period--for nothing.