Need some opinions on this one

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bonejack
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Need some opinions on this one

Post by bonejack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:52 pm

Just finished up this track and thought I'd run it by you guys. It really needs a fresh set of ears. The song is called Liquid Courage. I would be so greatful if you would give it a listen and tell me what style it seems like to you and if you are hearing anything funky sounding in the mix.

http://www.taxi.com/daveleopard

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by rnrmachine » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:04 pm

Hey Bonejack,

I like it, a lot, and since you just listened to my tune you know I like this style. hehe

There are moments when the song feels a bit mechanical, like the intro. Not 100% sure what you should do to fix that. Maybe just slop up the timing a bit. If you are using MIDI triggered drums, which it sounds like, you should check out groove monkey. He has free MIDI samples that would easily set you up with MIDI drums tracks you can be proud of. You can easily manipulate them since, being samples, they are limited. Meaning you would have to make changes here and there or it would get repetative. He has MANY sample sets for different drum software ie, battery 3, Superior Drummer etc...

Link to groovemonkey http://www.groovemonkee.com/home/

The drums sound great though... don't change a thing there.

Other then that it sounds awesome dude.

Rob
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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by bonejack » Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:59 pm

Thanks for the feedback, Rob. I agree that the drums do sound a bit mechanical. That always seems to get me. I have used the Groove Monkey loops in the past (My song "Jump te Shark" uses them), but I just hated being so limited on some of the loops. I do have some of his MIDI loops as well. Just didn't use them here.

Anyone got any advice on how to program drums to be less stiff? Should I maybe offset some of the beats a tad to make it a bit looser?

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by eeoo » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:37 pm

Not my area of expertise here but i do dig it. Was getting a 70's hard rock vibe from it. I suck at drum programming so I'm no help there. I think the mix sounds great, keep it up dude! eo.

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by thokus » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:56 pm

Love that tune ... Drums sound good to me .. but then I'm a guitar guy... Drums are the hardest part of this stuff.. yours sounded pretty darn good .. The guitar was real nice ... I wouldve like to hear more lead there towards the end , but that's good , leave 'em wanting more..
Tom

Ps . I use groove monkey drum midis , with Reason and Record sequencing

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by bfl » Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:08 pm

mix sounds really good to me

yeah - I was wanting to hear more melodic stuff or lead or something or something going on. I guess the main riff/melody idea is the Bb-Db-Eb-Db-Bb-Db-Eb-Db-Ab (or something close), the rhythm being pretty straight when the melody is played. And maybe (for me) my ear is wanting something a little different melodically after a while.

don't like the midi clap here

wish I could do drums that well!

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by bonejack » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:34 pm

Thanks, everyone, for the comments. All great suggestions and feedback. I really do appreciate it. The drums are actually Steven Slate Drums, right out of the box, with very little done on my part.

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by rnrmachine » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:38 pm

Hey Bonejack,

I know a awesome way to make them less stiff it just entails a bit of work. On those sections where they seem mechanical, assuming you already moved them a bit from perfect, ie if it lands on measure 3 on quarter note 2 and 4 you move them only slightly out of perfection. Since you used Groove Monkey in the past I am assuming you already did this. IF you did that then... Do an audio bounce of the snare, hat and kick (if you need to all 3 and only do the sections needed). Do minor changes in EQ. You could do this on the audio clip itself. Insert the EQ directly into the FX bin on the audio clip. You can then split the clips into the individual hits and this will leave the EQ on each new clip of single hits. Then make small EQ changes on each hit. You will not use all of the bounce audio clip hits. Just like, every other one. Then mute the MIDI notes for those particular ones you are going to keep and drag those clips into the audio track of the corresponding tracks.. ie snare goes with snare etc... This way you use the same FX that is on that track. ONLY do this if you turn off the FX bin when you bounced, which you should do. Again, you wouldn't mute all the MIDI notes and you wouldn't use all of the bounced hits that are minorly EQd. You would mix them so the sample sounds like more different layers. You are just trying to humanize the hit so it sounds like a human is hitting a drum and gettting minor variations. Often drum samples have the same exact hit for layers so when you have velocities in the same region. Let's say, for example velocity 101-127 is actually the same sample. The only way to alter the sound now is too physically make it sound like a slightly different hit. Works like a champ but a bit of work.. obviously.

You could also load a 2nd snare and have it vary in volume via an envolope thus altering the snare hits. Kick drums are usually a lot worse in the sample world, for good reason, too many variations on a kick can be problematic. BUT Only 3 different samples is even more so, imho, and a lot of drum programs will just give a soft, medium and hard kick samples. That is only 3 layers.. yuck!!! But once you count it in with all the other drums/cymbals you are talking a huge amount of layers in one softsynth. So it is done out of neccessity not cheapness. The high hat is the hardest to do this way because it is usually hit a TON of times compared to the other drums you are trying to vary. It's just a lot more work but you do it in the same manner. When I say minor EQ changes.. I mean MINOR. If you are changing more then 2db in any frequency then you will alter too much. IF you need that much alteration then you should probably just lower the velocity enough so it changes to a different sample (layer).

There are drum programs out there now that do have multiple samples for the same layers. Such as, the kick Soft, Medium and Hard will still be there, but they will cycle through 4 different samples of the corresponding layers. So, if you hit the kick hard 4 times in a row, no longer will you have the same exact sample like most drum programs. You will actually have 4 different hits even if the velocity is identical for those 4 hits. As far as I know, Ocean Way Drums pioneered this, but in order to get the realistic drum set/samples and the ability to use them you have to buy the full version. Which lists around $1500.

Superior Drummer 2 has a anti-machinegun effect on it, but I am not sure if it actually cycles through samples or not. I just know for a fact their anti-machinegun works like a champ.

There are others out there as well, just look for them to mention that they have some sort of realism mechanism in place. All drum progams will eventually change to this, I am sure.

Rob
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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by bonejack » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:32 pm

Good ideas, Rob. I will deffinitely have to give that a try. I never thought of doing that. The program I used actually does have a humanize feature built into it, but I guess those things can only do so much. One thing I also tried the other night was just going in and readjusting some of the velocity levels. That seemed to be helping as well. I always tweak those anyway, but I guess this one needed some additonal tweaking.

-=Dave

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Re: Need some opinions on this one

Post by rnrmachine » Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:03 pm

Cool dude, hope it turns out awesome!! Maybe when we submit our songs to the same listing they will get to hang out with eachother in the music library so they aren't so lonely... LOL

Sorry, musician humor coupled with, I don't get out much! :roll:

Rob
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Sonar X1 PE Expanded on a Windows 7 64bit system.
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