NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by rnrmachine » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:24 pm

I just wanted to quick mention that... I still think GTRrig4 is awesome... it just has limitations like all software does... strengths and weaknesses, etc...

Rob
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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by Cruciform » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:43 pm

@ Frank - that looks interesting. I might investigate further when I get the time.

@ Rob - I'm about to plug in now and do some experimenting \m/

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by cardell » Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:00 am

Impressive stuff!

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by Cruciform » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:05 am

Hey Rob, I keep coming back to needing some compression and some limiting in the GT-10 to get a usable signal with minimal peaking - but I stress that's probably just my setup.

Here's a demo recording on the crunchier side of Rammfire. Please forgive the playing, it was rough-and-ready one take on each track. :? Track is "Rammfire demo" (as if it wasn't obvious!) - http://www.taxi.com/cruciform

I have another full song which I'll post when it's ready.

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by Cruciform » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:49 pm

Further tweaking yields the "Fire of dissent riff" - http://www.taxi.com/cruciform

I will be using this riff (not necessarily this recording) in my next song. I've layered 6 individually recorded tracks each with a separate Rammfire setting. 2 panned left, 2 centre, 2 right. That plus the kick drum is all you're hearing. Basically I'm building up a template of presets for future use. Probably more tweaking to come on EQing etc, especially once I add other instruments into the mix. There's a delicious crunch going on here. Compare to the prior "Rammfire demo" track :D

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by rnrmachine » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:56 pm

Hey Rob,

Did you boost the mix like a mastering engineer would? Because, although it sounds good it's not quite right, like you are ALMOST there, metal speaking that is, and seems like there may be too much bass causing a compressor to lock down and or not letting you turn the volume up loud enough. Keep in mind I am being EXTREMELY nit picky here. AS if I was trying to make the sound myself with the right amount of "crunch" and "chug" mixed in.

When the guitars are solo it sounds better but still not right, so maybe it's just the combo of how the drums sounds mixed in, and it just sounds like it has too much bass. Not sure though... without turning some knobs and listening.

IF I was doing this.. I would use a "highpass" filter on everything so there would be less subsonic "unheard" sounds going on. IF that didn't open up the sound enough... ONLY THEN would I try an EQ boost between 2khz-4khz. To get right "crunch" to "chug" ratio... sounds like a chemist or something... "crunch to chug ratio" HAHA

Another thing, on the "Rammfire Demo" if it is not too much bass, I would check that first with a highpass filter, again, if NOT too much bass then it sounds like you have room to put in a GTR layer that has the bass end chopped off with a highpass filter.. like around 250hz or maybe even as high as 500hz. Play it TIGHT as hell and the extra edge on that new layer would add in the right amount of crunch/edge. Use GTRig4 with an edgy patch or just your normal edgy sounding deal you like to use.

IF it is too much bass and you add in another gtr it will only exacerbate the issue.

Keep me informed ;) ,

Rob
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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by Cruciform » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:48 pm

Thanks. I'll play around with those ideas, especially the high-passing. I know the kick drum is very bassy.

Ps. Initial experimenting has decent results (not sure if I love them) with hi-passing. Gives me a lot of room to add a punchy bass when I get to it. I'm pretty nooby at all this mixing/engineering, especially with blending heavy rock guitars into other elements. Cheers and thanks.

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by rnrmachine » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:25 pm

You would be surprised at how thin guitars are a lot of the time in recordings... compared to what you think you are hearing anyway.

Even if you only put the HP filter on at 40hz-60hz it makes a HUGE difference in the room left over for the Bass gtr and drums. Remember there is only a limited amount of space in a recording. And cramming it full and keeping it sounding good is a very delicate process.

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by Cruciform » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:34 pm

Rob,

If you have time and don't mind, could you have a listen to this please? How do you think they are getting that punch on the riff that starts at 0:20?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjLJdIeQ0Xk&feature=fvst

I know Richard heavily layers the guitars but beyond that I don't have a clue. I'm thinking it has a lot to do with the various frequency spaces that are created through filter passing - what you're talking about above. Thanks.

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Re: NI's new guitar effect - "Rammfire"

Post by rnrmachine » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:30 am

Hey Rob,

Undoubtedly a highpass filter is used on the GTRs, probably around 100hz (just guessing). It could be a LITTLE lower or higher. The bass GTR then fills the rest of the bottom end.. blended quit well with the gtrs filling out the bottom end so they seamlessly work as one. Sometimes this isn't what you want, but that would depend on how well defined you want the bass GTR. Now, the bass gtr sounds like it is cut with a dip about 80hz fairly narrow... could be anywhere between 60-80hz but I think it is 80. The kick drum is allowed to stand out in that frequency, most likely boosted there as well. I suppose the cut could be as high as 100hz but it don't sound that high to me. It's very hard to say for sure but those numbers I gave you are close if not right on.

It does sound layered a bit.. but not an awful lot. I'd bet $$$ that it is a triple rec.

Rob
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