Noob composer needs help-ACTION PACKED, MODERN ORCHESTRAL

[JonBHC]

Hey guys

I really enjoy writing this style but have had no forwards yet, so I figured I would try for some feedback from the forum here.
This is where I am at with this one, i would appreciate any tips or advice anyone has.

https://soundcloud.com/jon-browning-bhc/by-starlight

ACTION PACKED, MODERN ORCHESTRAL COMPOSITIONS

In the earth-shattering ballpark
Trevor Morris (The Vikings),
Tyler Bates (300),
Alan Silvestri (The Avengers), etc.,

are needed by a very busy Music Library for a number of Film and TV placements.
They want original Instrumental pieces that are epic, driving, and energetic.
The Instrumentals you submit should have an authentic, organic sound. MIDI or stale sounding Instrumentals will NOT work for this one.
At least 2 minutes in length, and buttoned endings are recommended.

[kclements]

Hello Jon -

I think you have a nice start here. Here are a couple of my thoughts:

- I'm not sure if it is orchestral enough. You have the action drum part down, but I don't hear a lot of orchestral stuff in there. The strings pop in once and a while, but I don't know if it is enough. I think for this kind of listing you need horns and more strings.

- There are no edit points. The track goes full blast from start to finish. I think you need to put in some space for editing. If they can't use the whole 2:27, there aren't any really good places to break it up - give them some space where then can fade it for an edit.

- I think the drum patterns are too repetitive and too large in the mix. I don't think you should go hog wild with variety, but a little something to break them up a bit. for example, at :58 you bring the same drum pattern back as the beginning, and again around 1:22, 1:38.... Maybe just a bit of variety. Maybe try doing one of the verses without that drum pattern and see what it sounds like.

I think you have the start of a nice track. Keep working on it. The biggest thing in my ear is it needs a bit more ebb and flow - space/breaks to edit to. The track needs to tell a story and right now, all I'm getting is the action and none of the build up. I know the listing is calling for action packed, but I think it still needs some dynamic variation. (If you listen to Assault from The Avengers by Silvestri, you hear a lot of give and take, even in the short iTunes preview)

Just my thoughts - keep working on it.

cheers -
kc

[JonBHC]

Hey KC

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with everything you said, no edit points, too much of the same drum part, not enough strings and more variety. I will re-post after I work on it more.

Thanks

jb

[JonBHC]

I took Kayle Clements advice and here is the edited version.

https://soundcloud.com/jon-browning-bhc ... light-edit

Thanks Kayle!

jb

[Cruciform]

Hi Jon,

You have a lot of good ideas, now they need to come together and build coherently.

I was with you until 0:27 - then it needs to hit full bore and rip forward. There is too much energy lost at that point. The cue has a halting feel to it, it sounds much more like it was scored to a scene. The way the energy dissipates leaves this cue in 'tension' territory, it never really hits action IMO.
Driving 8th/16th string ostinatos and growing, evolving percussion will put it forward.

Like I say, lots of good ideas, just need to build the oomph and momentum.

[JonBHC]

Hey Rob

Thanks for taking the time to listen and make suggestions.

I think you are right, I am usually a bit unsure of my orchestral/cinematic arrangements, winging it really. I usually get similar comments too, good ideas, not arranged right. I stared buying music from guys like Bear McCreary last year to improve my ear and that has helped. I think I will keep posting for peer review, have not tried too much of that until now.

jb

[jeromerossen]

Hi Jon-
You've got a nice track here.

Good job incorporating Kayle's notes (which were spot on!). I think the changes definitely made the track better.

Bear McCreary's awesome - great composer for inspiration.

As you continue to develop your orchestral side - and you should, because you have some nice things going on - I can recommend a couple of things.

First, check out some of the masters, to find some music you like i.e. Bear McCreary's influences - check out Stravinsky, Rachmaninov, Mahler, Holst. You don't have to know exactly what these guys were doing right away, but I have a feeling you'll latch onto stuff you like.

Second, try writing the same track, but mute your drum and guitar tracks. See if you can pull out the emotion and the energy from only the orchestral elements.

In you're piece starting at around 1:20, you have a nice marcato string pattern entering. This is great, but you could develop it more, and perhaps include it toward the beginning. Also it seems like you stick to short, rhythmic parts for your orchestral work. Don't be afraid to use long, melodic lines - perhaps counter-melodies might be good, if you feel like all out melodies are too much. And with these sample libraries, layering parts is key - use woodwinds with your strings for legato sections.

Hope this helps!

Jerome