NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

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PhilRey
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NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by PhilRey » Wed May 30, 2018 10:00 pm

Sorry to insist. I need to understand. This track has been returned for this reason:
Hi Phil,
I like the heroic theme and the development of this track. Although, the emulated orchestra veers from the listing's request of authentic and convincing sounds. You may want to research current modern orchestra plug-ins that can simulate human breath and bow articulations to achieve an authentic sound.
-How the sounds are not convincing ? My track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ1cXWlWrpc
-There are barely no strings in this track, it's mainly hybrid / percs and FHorns (that are rather convincing for me). The only strings (violins spiccato) are sometimes doubled with a panned synth (that has a nice hybrid touch for me) and that we can hear isolated in the begining of the track. Rejected because of these strings ? Really ? (Cinesamples is one of the best samples library btw..).

BIG doubts here. :( Not sure to understand the rules of this game in the end...
Y180523HT
HIGH-INTENSITY, TRAILER-Style INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a successful NON-Exclusive Music Library. They’re searching for Mid-To-Up-Tempo Instrumental Cues in the general stylistic wheelhouse of the examples below: “The Devil’s Sea” by Junkie XL: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=snM1tx7QrzY Avengers: Infinity War - Official Trailer (1:02-2:02): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QwievZ1Tx-8 Please submit well-crafted Instrumentals that have a dark tone and are structured like a typical Film Trailer, with three “acts” that build as the piece progresses. Your submissions should convey a huge emotional impact with lots of layers, interesting drumbeats, and hard-hitting percussion that create a feeling of intensity on a grand scale! Some non-lyrical vocal elements such as a choir can be included, but it’s not a requisite… just a suggestion. Ideally they would love to hear a hybrid of Orchestral/Electronic instrumentation that’s tastefully blended together. Please make sure any Orchestral instrumentation you use sounds very realistic and convincing. Submissions should be about 2 Minutes long (give or take), with Non-Faded/Stinger endings. Do NOT copy the referenced music in any way, shape, or form. Use it only as a guide for texture, tone, and vibe.

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by ChazAldi » Thu May 31, 2018 12:17 pm

I think it's a very well composed piece.

Based on the listing and the critique, VERY authentic sounding orchestral instrumentation was critical. I've received the same criticism about my samples (and I've written nothing of this caliber in this genre). I guess we need to spend some $$$ on very high quality orchestral samples?

AS stated in previous threads, perhaps compare yours to those that were forwarded and see if you can hear the difference.

Beautiful music though Phil I really enjoyed it.

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by PhilRey » Thu May 31, 2018 1:18 pm

ChazAldi wrote:I think it's a very well composed piece.

Based on the listing and the critique, VERY authentic sounding orchestral instrumentation was critical. I've received the same criticism about my samples (and I've written nothing of this caliber in this genre). I guess we need to spend some $$$ on very high quality orchestral samples?

AS stated in previous threads, perhaps compare yours to those that were forwarded and see if you can hear the difference.

Beautiful music though Phil I really enjoyed it.
Thanks for stopping by ;) (again ! ;) )

-I have among the best samples libraries for orchestra. But definitely I should have put the orchestra more in the center of this piece. Too hybrid I guess. This thin line is definitely.. well, thin.. !
-I've listened to the forwarded tracks, and didn't like what I've heard globaly (a few exceptions). So maybe here is my issue. "beautiful music" doesn't necesseraly mean "beautiful music for trailers"...

I should be able to find a home for this track on my own though. That's the most important I guess.

I'll be in a better mood soon ;) Sorry for this. Thanks again for commenting ;) - Phil

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by ChazAldi » Thu May 31, 2018 1:26 pm

I had a bad month in April with 4 returns which I thought were spot on. May was much better for me (5 for 6). I read somewhere on here to the effect of "they aren't looking for the best song for the listing but the RIGHT song". So it is up to us to figure out what that is and execute. Sometimes that is difficult to do. This can be a very frustrating process. Still better than a corporate suck ass job which I am currently stuck in. (I am working on that!).


Keep writing, submitting, forgetting, and repeating. Your music is pretty f***ing good (pardon the language). You will most certainly land some deals if you just persevere.


Charlie

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by PhilRey » Thu May 31, 2018 1:43 pm

ChazAldi wrote:I had a bad month in April with 4 returns which I thought were spot on. May was much better for me (5 for 6). I read somewhere on here to the effect of "they aren't looking for the best song for the listing but the RIGHT song". So it is up to us to figure out what that is and execute. Sometimes that is difficult to do. This can be a very frustrating process. Still better than a corporate suck ass job which I am currently stuck in. (I am working on that!).


Keep writing, submitting, forgetting, and repeating. Your music is pretty f***ing good (pardon the language). You will most certainly land some deals if you just persevere.


Charlie
You're totally right of course... (I had maybe 10 returned tracks lately.. but I submit stuff almost daily right now... maybe too much.)
Thank you for your kind words Charlie ;) Wish you the best with your job (I've been threre too many times...) ! - Phil

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by VanderBoegh » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:44 pm

Hey Phil, it's those horns that are a dead giveaway as being fake. When it comes to trailer music (which is ultra high-bar, by the way), you're gonna be competing with guys who shell out thousands of dollars on real orchestras record the entire piece in amazing symphony halls.

I'm torn on the string samples. They might be okay. But it's the horns that are calling attention to themselves and being virtual horns.

Always keep in mind that your competition isn't just other Taxi members, and we aren't just trying to impress the screeners. In the end, we gotta compete with the big boys. And in the world of trailer music, where a single piece might pull down $20K-$50K for the sync fee, you can bet your @$$ that you're up against the best in the business. So, guys like "Two Steps from Hell" are gonna win the placement every time, with their live orchestras, versus a guy playing his horns through a keyboard.

There's a guy who used to frequent these forums fairly regularly (though I haven't seen from him in a while) named Robb Oxenbridge, who goes by the moniker Cruciform. He's had a lot of success with trailer music and syncs in this realm. Check out his SoundCloud at: https://soundcloud.com/cruciform That's also your competition!

I don't mean to rain on your parade or anything, but trailers, country artist cuts, and pop artist cuts are the crown jewels in the music biz, and the bar is so high that it can only be seen from space.

~~Matt

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by PhilRey » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:02 pm

I agree on a few points Matt. The bar is high, I know. The horns ? They do not sound horrible for me... (the screener doesn't even talk about this).Can they compete with real FHorns ? Maybe not.. Can they convey enough credibility and emotion to this track. I think so in this context (Taxi and the forwarded tracks taken as references).

Have you listen to the forwarded tracks ? Almost none of them could really compete with a real orchestra (ala "Two Step From Hell" and other trailers company). Neither for the sound or the writting. It's a little world that I know a little bit - no so much - just a little bit (my wife is one of Two Steps From Hell regular singer, and I've been working myself for companies like TSFH).

I here all kind of trailer musics, and not all of them are "high quality real orchestra recorded". Your track can be used for advertzing a blockbuster (a little bit like winning the lotery) or more simply for a an online video game etc... Quality matters clearly, but the spectrum is not so tight I would say. There is still room for descent mockups from what I hear.. (maybe not for the same kind of deals of course)

In my case I think it has more to do with the fact t hat I should have include more of the "real thing", and be attached to make it sound credible (that is the explanation that I give to myself though...) rather than to relay mainly on hybrid stuff..

I'm gonna check your link now ;)

Thank you for stopping by though ! :) Phil

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by CTWF » Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:52 pm

Hi Phil. Sorry for your frustration - and the piece sounds totally epic, and, personally, sitting in the audience I would have been just fine with it. One thing I would possibly think about changing (non-pro that I am): part of the percussion seemed to me like being confined to a smaller room/space, which stood a little in contrast to the more epic orchestration in the background (horns), but maybe that effect was wanted? Not sure I express that the right way.

As a French Horn dude ("but the horns, the horns") I wanted to comment on that part. I started playing 30 years ago, own a multi-thousand Dollar/Euro instrument, but hardly ever used it over the past 20 years - until recently, when I pulled it out and re-trained for the medieval track, which got rejected in due course for the fake horns ("the use of the emulated horn veers from the authenticity of the baroque period sound requested in the listing")... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Okay, I blended in SoundFont horns, but to my ears, they combination sounded like really authentic two freaking horns. As someone who also played French Horn in an orchestra for years (with 4-5 other horns, besides other brass), I start to think that maybe it is almost impossible to recreate great French Horn sound on the computer - at least the kind screeners seem to expect. Admittedly, your horns did not sound too real to me (say, Star Trek Voyager real), but then not at all shabby either for the purpose.

Given it was for a "cue", I don't really understand Matt's argument. I don't see how $20,000 would make it financially viable to hire and record a real, good orchestra, but maybe I would be surprised how cheap they are nowadays? Anyway, stopping my rant now, and I will stare at my double F/B Otto horn later, which sits on the top of my wardrobe collecting dust, waiting for the next medieval listing (maybe).

Phil, I really hope you find a good home for this piece, because it deserves it.
Tom

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by PhilRey » Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:03 pm

Thank you Tom ;)

Bha.. that's ok really.. The funny thing is that the screener didn't even talk about the horns :D (but I'll pay attention to them next time for sure)
I'm pitching this track to other libraries now ;o)

Just a question: would you be able to play (and record) this FHorns part ? Because that would add credibility to my "cheesy" sound eventualy :)
Justan idea ;o)

Thank you for stopping by ! - Phil

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Re: NOT OK (again) / TRAILER music

Post by CTWF » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:00 pm

Hey Phil, I would like to help you out there (flattering to be asked), but I think I am not at that level, since I have been inactive for two decades. You need a nice, full sound, but I could barely play those simple brief parts I had come up with for the medieval thingy (lack of muscular strength [lips] + the instrument needs a major overhaul/inside cleaning). :oops: And I needed to do a lot of editing, not to mention that my recording equipment does not seem to be right for the job either. To make it short, you would be much better off to take an active amateur (someone like me 20+ years ago) living near you and record him/her for half an hour, so you can mix it in. That - I believe - should not be too expensive. Tom

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