Opinions on In Perpetuity Agreementz

[k o star]

I need some opinions & advice abt exclusive song deals that are "In Perpetuity"?
Are these "In Perpetuity" deals common?
Any advice to these?
All feedback welcomed..

K

[mazz]

Hey Kel,

It seems to me, from what I've seen, is that there's a couple of reasons a company would want an "in perpetuity" agreement:

1. They manufacture CDs or send out hard drives to their clients and they need to be able to know that once they've made those CDs or hard drives, they don't have to go back and tell everyone who ever bought one "well, now you can't use Kel's piece XYZ because his contract expired and he didn't renew it". That would be impossible and unmanageable.

2. The client doesn't want to come back and negotiate another license with you after whatever term of the contract expires.

3. They want to be able to freely promote your music without wondering if it's going to end up on the same client's desk from a different publisher.

HTH,

Mazz

[k o star]

Hey Kel,

It seems to me, from what I've seen, is that there's a couple of reasons a company would want an "in perpetuity" agreement:

1. They manufacture CDs or send out hard drives to their clients and they need to be able to know that once they've made those CDs or hard drives, they don't have to go back and tell everyone who ever bought one "well, now you can't use Kel's piece XYZ because his contract expired and he didn't renew it". That would be impossible and unmanageable.

2. The client doesn't want to come back and negotiate another license with you after whatever term of the contract expires.

3. They want to be able to freely promote your music without wondering if it's going to end up on the same client's desk from a different publisher.

HTH,

Mazz

Thank U so much Mazz..
That pretty much cleared up everything I was unsure abt..
It sounds good to me that that's what they want for those reasons, sounds like they are serious abt promoting the music without having to worry abt other stuff, which is great I think..
& yes it's on CD..

-Kel

[matto]

To add to mazz' reasons given above:


4- This ties in with mazz' reason 1 above: it's an even much bigger problem if the company has international distributors

5- They don't want to spend money marketing your song to their clients only to have you yank it from under them before it has the chance to get used and make them (their) money (back)

6- They paid you an upfront fee to write/produce the song. Obviously in this case they wouldn't want to have any restrictions placed on how they can recoup their investment.


Of course, any perpetuity agreement always carries the risk that the song will never make you any money. You can mitigate this risk by researching the company as best possible, and by not giving them a ton of material until they are actually making you money...

matto

[crs7string]

If I was a library owner I would add:

#7. I'm building a viable business that has value that I can one day sell.

It's harder to sell a bunch of tracks that the composers can ask to get back in a revision clause.

Chuck

[guscave]

Of course, any perpetuity agreement always carries the risk that the song will never make you any money. You can mitigate this risk by researching the company as best possible, and by not giving them a ton of material until they are actually making you money...

matto

Hey Matt, thanks for that info. I was wondering what you thought would be a good amount of tracks to send at first to a company asking for perpetuity. ( 3 songs, 5 or 10?). I assume you would want to give them enough to work with yet if they don't produce any $ you don't want to have 20 or 50 songs tide up with them. Even if it's on a non-exclusive deal.

[k o star]

To add to mazz' reasons given above:


4- This ties in with mazz' reason 1 above: it's an even much bigger problem if the company has international distributors

5- They don't want to spend money marketing your song to their clients only to have you yank it from under them before it has the chance to get used and make them (their) money (back)

6- They paid you an upfront fee to write/produce the song. Obviously in this case they wouldn't want to have any restrictions placed on how they can recoup their investment.


Of course, any perpetuity agreement always carries the risk that the song will never make you any money. You can mitigate this risk by researching the company as best possible, and by not giving them a ton of material until they are actually making you money...

matto

Thanks Matto for the elaboration..
12-15 tracks no upfront isn't too many right?
I guess there's always a risk & good to calculate it & balance the material input..
Appreciate the advice of wisdom..

-K

[k o star]

If I was a library owner I would add:

#7. I'm building a viable business that has value that I can one day sell.

It's harder to sell a bunch of tracks that the composers can ask to get back in a revision clause.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck..
Do U know what happens to the composers when that business is sold?

K

[Casey H]

If I was a library owner I would add:

#7. I'm building a viable business that has value that I can one day sell.

It's harder to sell a bunch of tracks that the composers can ask to get back in a revision clause.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck..
Do U know what happens to the composers when that business is sold?

K

Most contracts I've seen have a clause that the library can sell, transfer, assign all the rights granted in the contract. So usually if the library gets bought by another entity the contract simply transfers to that entity.

As a general comment on exclusive "forever" deals, I think it's even more important in those cases to review the contract with a qualified music attorney. Not all libraries are open to any contract edits at all, but many are. Sometimes a music attorney can suggest some language to add that protects you a little more....

For example, what if the currently reputable and successful library down the road is not able to actively pitch the music, is having big problems, but is not officially out of business? Sometimes a lawyer can suggest language to allow you to exit under these circumstances. This is just a general example of the types of things you could talk about with an attorney.

As discussed on this forum a lot, if you are someone that writes a lot of tracks and is not "married" to the ones to be signed-- e.g. you know you will just write some more, there is less reason for being hesitant about signing such a deal. If you are not all that prolific and consider each track one of your "babies", you may be less willing to do this type of deal.

There is no 'one size fits all' deal out there. You have to look at all the pros and cons and see what make sense for YOU.

Casey

[k o star]

If I was a library owner I would add:

#7. I'm building a viable business that has value that I can one day sell.

It's harder to sell a bunch of tracks that the composers can ask to get back in a revision clause.

Chuck

Thanks Chuck..
Do U know what happens to the composers when that business is sold?

K

Most contracts I've seen have a clause that the library can sell, transfer, assign all the rights granted in the contract. So usually if the library gets bought by another entity the contract simply transfers to that entity.

As a general comment on exclusive "forever" deals, I think it's even more important in those cases to review the contract with a qualified music attorney. Not all libraries are open to any contract edits at all, but many are. Sometimes a music attorney can suggest some language to add that protects you a little more....

For example, what if the currently reputable and successful library down the road is not able to actively pitch the music, is having big problems, but is not officially out of business? Sometimes a lawyer can suggest language to allow you to exit under these circumstances. This is just a general example of the types of things you could talk about with an attorney.

As discussed on this forum a lot, if you are someone that writes a lot of tracks and is not "married" to the ones to be signed-- e.g. you know you will just write some more, there is less reason for being hesitant about signing such a deal. If you are not all that prolific and consider each track one of your "babies", you may be less willing to do this type of deal.

There is no 'one size fits all' deal out there. You have to look at all the pros and cons and see what make sense for YOU.

Casey

Awesome!! Thanks Casey.. I know what to do now

K